What are your thoughts? I'm flushing the brake fluid on my Volvo S60R for an upcoming track event at NJMP and am weighing the benefits and costs of different brake fluids. It has a 0.6L capacity and currently has amber fluid in it. Does alternating between blue and amber fluids really make it that much easier? Currently, I'm considering the ATE Super Blue ($25/L) and Pagid RBF ($50/L).
I don't think they can sell teh super blue anymore.
I just bleed the brakes until the fluid looks good. You will be able to tell.
Super blue OR the ATE amber colored stuff both work fine for track days. It is what we run in our lemons cars.
Other persons have good luck with castrol and some others.
I would not recommend using "parts-store" brake fluid. That stuff is VERY easy to boil with moderate track use.
Depends on the car and driver really. I can race the Miata in Spec Miata all day long with off the shelf Castrol. The FD was capable of killing every stock brake component during regular HPDE events so brake fluid was important - until I got a RacingBrake BBK.
I reckon you'll be fine with ATE for a track event.
What class do you typically run?
amg_rx7 wrote: . What class do you typically run?
It'll be open track w/ an instructor. I've done a few auto crosses but this is my first time on the track. The car has great brakes (4 piston 13" Brembos) I just don't want to be cheap somewhere I shouldn't be.
ATE should be fine. That hardware should be more than adequate to deal with the heat generated. Doubt you'll get the system hot enough to boil brake fluid.
More importantly, whatcha doing for pads?
I've run off-the-shelf Valvoline DOT 3/4 fluid in the project Fiesta and my LeMons Ford Escort. Both cars have excellent brakes. I think we ran the same stuff in the Miata we just took to Sebring for ChumpCar, and my personal Miata for track days—including one at Sebring in the middle of summer. No problems.
It does really depend on the car.
As for blue or not, you can tell anyway. The old stuff will be darker amber. When fresh stuff hits your clear hose, it's obvious.
amg_rx7 wrote: ATE should be fine. That hardware should be more than adequate to deal with the heat generated. Doubt you'll get the system hot enough to boil brake fluid. More importantly, whatcha doing for pads?
I'm running what came with the car. They appear to be nearly new and I believe they are the OEM Brembo pad.
I have always run name brand DOT4 in my cars and never had an issue. Just bleed them before every event. As I got more experienced I found I used brakes less and less and thus boiling of the brake fluid and brake fade became a non issue. This was before the days of ABS and I think this may be where people can cook the bakes as you can brake harder and later and let the computer control the lockup thus having good fluid would probably be much more important.
As an instructor I prefer that students have decent, fresh fluid. I've had a couple over the years who boiled in the first session, and when I grabbed the pressure bleeder to help out, found nasty brown goo at the calipers.
I keep the ATE 200 around as my general purpose fluid. It was fine in my '98 M3 'til I started running Hoosier R6s. The additional grip made for hotter brakes so I ducted and switched to Motul 600, which I also use in the Wilwoods on the sports racer.
I can say from experience, not just Internet lore parroted about fourth-hand, that brakes work much better if they have fluid in the system. So brake fluid makes a huge difference.
the OEM pads, the fronts anyway (even though new looking) could easily be overwhelmed by the abuse it will receive on track ... if this is going to be a take it easy and just try to learn the lines ... then maybe they will be ok ...
there are many choices for pads .. a lot will depend on your car and what you expect out of the event ...
if you do swap to "race" pads, then I'd also suggest new rotors ... bed the pads to the new rotors ... after the event you can swap back to the OEM pads and rotors ... save the "race" stuff for the next track day
the reason for the pads, rotors, and fluid is that fade can happen from either the pads or the fluid ...
Angry Corvair can step in here with LOTS more info ... but I really think you should consider how much you'd like to drive your car home afterwards
Depends how hot your brakes get, but it does make a difference. I put Lockheed DOT5.1 in my 'rolla, upgrading from DOT4, but I haven't driven with it yet. That wasn't expensive and I got it at one of the better parts stores by me so you can probably pick it up at any gas station.
The problem with DOT5 is purging the system of DOT4 or whatever since the two do not mix. Be careful when you do drive it hard.
whenry wrote: The problem with DOT5 is purging the system of DOT4 or whatever since the two do not mix. Be careful when you do drive it hard.
DOT5.1 is DOT3/4 compatible - too bad they gave it the worst possible name that would never clue you into this.
DOT5 is actually pretty crappy performance-wise.
wvumtnbkr wrote: I don't think they can sell teh super blue anymore. I just bleed the brakes until the fluid looks good. You will be able to tell. Super blue OR the ATE amber colored stuff both work fine for track days. It is what we run in our lemons cars. Other persons have good luck with castrol and some others. I would not recommend using "parts-store" brake fluid. That stuff is VERY easy to boil with moderate track use.
i believe they still sell the blue stuff, but with a "not for highway use" sticker on it..
Back in the early nineties when I worked as a motorcycle mechanic, I found that Castoral LMA dot 4 solved complaints of brake fade on both sport bikes and dirt bikes just as well as more expensive premium brake fluids.
That was a long time ago, on vehicles that stress their brake systems differently than cars, so YMMV.
whenry wrote: The problem with DOT5 is purging the system of DOT4 or whatever since the two do not mix. Be careful when you do drive it hard.
People say that, but what bad things will happen? You still have a hydraulic system full of liquid, and both fluids were designed for use with brake hydraulics. If they don't mix, then they just sit there in two layers and the world still hasn't ended, no?
From all the problems with 5 I've read(impossible to bleed, water collects at bottom of parts and rusts rather than being absorbed), I'd go with 5.1.
even the military, that it was developed for, gave up on it yrs. ago
I asked James Clay about this recently because of a new brake fluid on the market, Torque, claiming to be the bestest greatest ever. He said they run Prospeed in their cars and it is better but the problem he says is that they don't really tell you how much. Yes it's better... they had slightly better pedal feel over a 25hr race (this is the professional Bimmerworld outfit). But to say that the difference is anything more than that is marketing hype.
Basically go with any good fluid that's on sale lol. Prospeed was/is actually on sale from BW so that's what I have. Tastes good, that's all I know.
http://store.bimmerworld.com/prospeed-rs683-xtreme-performance-brake-fluid-p1619.aspx
I'm partial to generic Ford Spec DOT3 fluid. It has a 550F dry boiling point and is an inexpensive as regular DOT3 fluid. The downside is that it doesn't last very long and has a low wet boiling point. If you're burning through pads on the track it's a non-issue because you will need to change the fluid more frequently anyway.
Don't berkeley around with brake fluid. At best it ruins your fun with a spongy pedal. At worst... it can be the difference between a podium in the prize money or a 140mph ride across the grass ending in a roll-over crash with a 20g impact. Ya know... just using one example 
Wilwood EXP 600 is my affordable racing brake fluid of choice. You can find everywhere at the same price. NAPA even carries it. When choosing, you are most concerned with the wet boiling point number compared to other brands.
DOT5 is silicone.
DOT3, DOT4, DOT 5.1 are glycol.
They are not to be mixed, period. If you use DOT5 in a DOT3/4/5.1 system the seals may swell and seize the brakes full-on. That is not a fun job to repair.
If you have problems with the brakes overheating your car is too heavy or doesn't have enough downforce.
chaparral wrote: DOT5 is silicone. DOT3, DOT4, DOT 5.1 are glycol. They are not to be mixed, period. If you use DOT5 in a DOT3/4/5.1 system the seals may swell and seize the brakes full-on. That is not a fun job to repair. If you have problems with the brakes overheating your car is too heavy or doesn't have enough downforce.
And you should add some ducting to the brakes
chaparral wrote: If you have problems with the brakes overheating your car is too heavy or doesn't have enough downforce.
Or you came into the pits hot instead of cooling down a little during an endurance race to swap drivers, take on 17g of fuel... and 5 minutes of heat soak boiled cheap valvoline crap someone used because they were all out of the good stuff... then you made fun of the driver who took your place over the radio for being a Bob Costas when he said "pedal is really soft" and instead of telling you to berkeley off and bringing it in... he manned right the berkeley up an drove off the end of the front straight into a tirewall.
It's these little lessons that make us who we are today
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