How to save the 370Z...

93gsxturbo said:

The 370 is about a second faster in the quarter than a V6 Rav4.  350Z is about the same as a V6 Rav4.  Not exactly what I would call fast.  I remember getting ghetto stomped in my friends 350Z against my other friends 1993 5.0 Mustang with just long tubes and gears.  Like holy smokes tail lights.  And the 5.0 was really nothing special.  

These things are easily looked up. C&D had a '93 Mustang Cobra (+10hp vs. GT) doing the quarter in 14.3s. They have a Rav4 V6 doing it in 14.9. They have a 2003 350Z at 14.3 and a 2016 370Z at 13.7.

z31maniac said:

racerdave600 said:

93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.  Every one around here in Milwaukee has disappeared with the exception of a few StanceBroMobiles.  I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I saw one.  

 

???  Define slow?  

The relatively heavy weight + very linear engine isn't as "Exciting" as say a turbo engine with a bit of lag that "hits hard" up top. 

That's all going to be a matter of personal taste.  Being a G37 owner, I totally agree the platform is dated.  The interior is as well.  But it's a damn fun car to drive, and personally I love the powertrain.  I wouldn't call the 370Z or G37 slow by any stretch.  Having also owned a FoST, even with Ford Racing Tune, I personally prefer the VQ to the turbo 4.  When the FoST was on boost, it was a wild animal.  But you could also catch it napping, and then it was a total turd.  The VQ doesn't have that issue, I like the linear response from it.  If and when I get rid of the G37 I'm sort of in a debate between getting a 328i or Q50.  The reason I'd want the Q50 is that the earlier models still used the VQ, where the BMW is a turbo 4.

I drove a 370z and a Cayman S pretty much back to back (both manual) and i thought the 370 was very slightly faster. Either way I'm not about to go calling 4.x 0-60, 13 second  1/4  cars slow, even in 2019. 

93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.  Every one around here in Milwaukee has disappeared with the exception of a few StanceBroMobiles.  I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I saw one.  

 

I'd hardly consider anything NA that runs 12s with bolt-ons and a bad tune (terrible AFR) slow. Link

Snrub said:

93gsxturbo said:

The 370 is about a second faster in the quarter than a V6 Rav4.  350Z is about the same as a V6 Rav4.  Not exactly what I would call fast.  I remember getting ghetto stomped in my friends 350Z against my other friends 1993 5.0 Mustang with just long tubes and gears.  Like holy smokes tail lights.  And the 5.0 was really nothing special.  

These things are easily looked up. C&D had a '93 Mustang Cobra (+10hp vs. GT) doing the quarter in 14.3s. They have a Rav4 V6 doing it in 14.9. They have a 2003 350Z at 14.3 and a 2016 370Z at 13.7.

This. A new, base Boostang runs basically the same 1/4 mile time, is attractive and has real back seats, and costs $5,000 less (just looked at the ads on autotrader). Both cars are good tuner platforms, although it's probably easier to make the Boostang faster with a tune and some pipes. 

The solution is simple. If Canada can sell a base Z for $29,998 CAD ($22,640 at time of conversion) I don't see why they couldn't lower the US MSRP to $23,995. Now picture the following:

You're 23 and fresh out of college. You've landed an entry level job and you're looking for your first new car. You have a good credit rating but don't have a ton of credit history, and you need to keep the price below $25k. A 6-speed Civic hatch is $22,250 and you'll need a co-signer and a Hyundai Elantra Sport is $22,600 but you don't need a co-signer. You're about to settle for the Elantra Sport, when an ad pops up on Youtube. Nissan 370Z - $23,995. It's fast, it's sleek, it's sporty. You go down to the Nissan dealership and discover that you won't need a co-signer because Nissan is more generous when it comes to financing people with limited-but-good credit history. Sure it retails for $1400 more than the Hyundai and insurance is more expensive but it's a full-blooded sports car with a racing pulse. At that point, the 370Z becomes very hard to resist.

In reply to G_Body_Man :

Almost like a real life scenario. Ha.

Dave M said:

This. A new, base Boostang runs basically the same 1/4 mile time, is attractive and has real back seats, and costs $5,000 less (just looked at the ads on autotrader). Both cars are good tuner platforms, although it's probably easier to make the Boostang faster with a tune and some pipes. 

Up here a boostang is similar money to the 370z (still slightly cheaper). IMO the 370Z is much more fun to drive. In my opinion the boostang engine is effective at providing thrust, but the character is terrible. The power band feels narrow and peaks early, it's like an inverted V. It sounds terrible too.

Regarding the cost vs. volume on the 370Z - Let's say Nissan breaks even selling the 370Z for $30k in the US. If they sold it for $7k less they might have to sell 20x as many for things to work out equal. In Canada, raising the price $7k might mean they sell almost zero. We are a slightly poorer and more frugal nation. I agree that making the car appealing to some target audience makes sense. How do we get young people in particular and other people in general into sports cars again?

"How do we get young people in particular and other people in general into sports cars again?"

Won't happen, generally speaking.  The kids don't have the income.  Driving seems generally less enjoyable now vs. whenever you're looking back to (thinking mid-90's and earlier) with more congestion on the roads and less attentive drivers.  We're an oddity.  Don't focus on trying to convert others into joining the club.  

At this point I think the focus should be on making the most engaging to drive electric car possible.  

z31maniac said:

racerdave600 said:

93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.

???  Define slow?  

The relatively heavy weight + very linear engine isn't as "Exciting" as say a turbo engine with a bit of lag that "hits hard" up top. 

To you, maybe.  I despise lag and I rarely get to stay in the throttle long enough for that top-end fix you seem to like.  I find an engine that gives me solid throttle response right now more exciting, even if it does fall short of that hard hit near redline.

Duke said:

z31maniac said:

racerdave600 said:

93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.

???  Define slow?  

The relatively heavy weight + very linear engine isn't as "Exciting" as say a turbo engine with a bit of lag that "hits hard" up top. 

To you, maybe.  I despise lag and I rarely get to stay in the throttle long enough for that top-end fix you seem to like.  I find an engine that gives me solid throttle response right now more exciting, even if it does fall short of that hard hit near redline.

To my earlier point, modern, small-turbo boosted engines hit peak torque at low RPMs. E.g. all the Ecoboosts or the ubiquitous German turbo-4s. A tuned Boostang hits peak torque at 2,500 RPM. 

Perhaps they should call BMW. I hear they have a new chassis and engine that is easily rebodied by Asian manufacturers trying to recover former sportscar glory.

There is still something raw and hotrodish about the 370.  Before I bought it I owned an '08 S197 GT with most of the Shelby bits bolted on and good bit more hp than stock.  The 370Z was still faster, drove better, had better brakes, nicer seats, and in general a much nicer car.  Sure it's no Cayman, but they cost quite a bit less then and now for new versions.  And the 370 is not as expensive to own.  370's also racked up a few autocross national championships.  They're certainly not the best car ever made, but they rate higher than a lot of people give them credit for.  I bought a new BRZ after the 370 and I rate the Nissan far better in every aspect.

The FRS should have been the new Z car.

That ship has sailed.

Shame really because with a real engine and a Nissan badge the FRS might have been epic.

Pete

Duke said:

z31maniac said:

racerdave600 said:

93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.

???  Define slow?  

The relatively heavy weight + very linear engine isn't as "Exciting" as say a turbo engine with a bit of lag that "hits hard" up top. 

To you, maybe.  I despise lag and I rarely get to stay in the throttle long enough for that top-end fix you seem to like.  I find an engine that gives me solid throttle response right now more exciting, even if it does fall short of that hard hit near redline.

I was just speculating, the "general you" if you will. I owned a 350Z, I owned less than 100 days because it was a pretty, numb, dull car, with horrendous interior finish. 

My car makes peak torque around 1400 and carries it to 5200. But it falls off hard the closer you spin it to the 7000 RPM redline. I'd like the turbo/tuning set up to be responsive and not fall off up top. 

I have always liked the 370Z...driven a couple. I think what killed it is the lack of updates. Why buy a new one when you can pick up a used one for $15K? They either need to replace it or do a drastic update.

I work at a store where there is a new 2016 370z that's sat on the lot and its marked down to mid 20's...