I itch for a Subaru

to answer your original question...pictures are always more fun....and since everyone here knows I love to photo-whore...

1/2" drop + Wintersport 3D. It was the 4th car out of the neighborhood during last year's "blizzards" (40+"). The first two were a Tahoe, Durango, and my wife's 4Runner. The neighbors didn't even bother with their cars.

not in the least bit stuck...seriously.

I got out about 20 minutes after this Durango (and my wife's 4runner in the background) finally blazed a trail

oh, and here's the lot of the ski shop I work weekends at. We got 14" the night/day before and most roads weren't plowed. Note the only 5 employees that made it and what they drove...Then it snowed another 8" during the workday, but we all managed to get out of the unplowed lot and 16 miles home.

(cliffs: that's a Land Cruiser, Jeep, XTerra, and 2 wrx's on wintersports)

btw, those pics keep in mind I have an 09, which means I do NOT have front or rear LSDs like the STi and older WRXs do, and it still did perfectly fine.

JeepinMatt wrote: I don't see any mechanical reason an AWD Subie would outperform a 4WD SUV, only an operator-related reason

Since I own both, my thoughts:

4WD SUV has a major edge in ground clearance, obviously - especially if it's heavy/wet snow in real depths. Any AWD car is limited by how deep it can go without high-centering. 4WD also has the big tires in case you accidentally tag a curb so you don't trash your wheel.

AWD car has a major edge once the snow is down to ~6" standing height, on partly plowed roads that still ahve snow cover, and on icy roads. Especially something small like an impreza. Simply easier to stop, easier to maneuver. Mass is the enemy in low snow/ice.....

I felt far more confident driving the WRX last winter in the snow over the 4Runner (with snow-rated A/T tires).

COG and weight could certainly be advantages, but Subies have gotten a lot heavier than the old GC8s. Compared to the Cherokee he mentioned, the Impreza is right around the same weight. Then again, that doesn't hold water compared to a Silverado.

If you drive smartly, and perhaps drop some money on some snow tires, I don't think there will be that big of a difference for around-town driving in the snow; not enough that it would change my decision away from what I want. If the OP wants a sporty car, the Subie is the way to go. If he wants some that he can take off-roading, an SUV would be a better choice. I think either would work just fine around town.

JeepinMatt wrote: COG and weight could certainly be advantages, but Subies have gotten a lot heavier than the old GC8s. Compared to the Cherokee he mentioned, the Impreza is right around the same weight. Then again, that doesn't hold water compared to a Silverado. If you drive smartly, and perhaps drop some money on some snow tires, I don't think there will be that big of a difference for around-town driving in the snow; not enough that it would change my decision away from what I want. If the OP wants a sporty car, the Subie is the way to go. If he wants some that he can take off-roading, an SUV would be a better choice. I think either would work just fine around town.

my '90 XJ was great for bombing around in the deep snow...it was the plowed areas and general winter road garbage that gave it a time. That said, it was on BFG AT 31s, which are too much contact area for a lightish truck when it came time to stop. That, combined with some of the worst brakes ever created....no stopping power, no modulation feel, no ABS... I found myself in the middle of several intersections on partially-plowed roads....And yeah, a base XJ is about the same weight as a loaded WRX, but there are some minor differences in the suspension and steering, lol. The XJ feels about 3 times as heavy when you're driving it!

If going with an XJ in the winter, it needs 2 things. Well 3: 1. stick with stockish tire sizes. Big beefies are nice for super-deep stuff, but not great for packed and ice. 2. upgrade to a Grand Cherokee brake booster.... 3. bring a towel with you. The defroster doesn't defrost more than a couple inches of the windshield, and most older XJs leak in various places, so you'll be sure to have water inside the vehicle, condensing once the heater is on....

Either one will work for general around-town stuff. But an XJ isn't much fun to drive at all unless you plan to wheel it alot. Handling sucks, brakes suck, ride isn't good, not much more utility than an impreza wagon, honestly...the 4.0 HiOutput IS excellent though. I didn't have much time to wheel mine, that's why I sold it. If you do plan to wheel it though, it's an obvious choice over an impreza.

XJ parts ARE cheap as hell though and everything is easy to work on, that's for sure. Subies....not quite so much.

more photo whoring by me....my old XJ

try not to buy a 98-02 2.5 unless it's had head gaskets and make sure the timing belt is done at the proper interval.

Are we talking about Forestors? Imprezas switched to SOHC motors that were minus the headgasket issues in 99. The DOHC motor on the other hand, stay away!

SOHC is not exempt either...do your homework. The Phase 2 SOHC suffered from external head gasket leaks until 02-03-ish. I have the bill to prove it.

Love the Subie's for Michigan winters. I've had the Impreza, Legacy Outback, Forester, Brat, etc. and I personally like the first gen. Forester the best. My current ride is a rust free '98 "S" model. A few from my past:

My advise? Buy one super cheap with leaking headgaskets. I have it down to a science and buy repairable ones 2-3 times a year.
Most 2.5's have some sort of problems if the coolant isn't changed often. Make sure it's the Subie green coolant too... even my poor Dad has a '05 Forester with leaking head gaskets.

JeepinMatt wrote: I don't see any mechanical reason an AWD Subie would outperform a 4WD SUV, only an operator-related reason

One word: BULK. Unlike an SUV that doesn't handle well in the dry, an Impreza is a great handling car to begin with. Throw four cheap studded snows on the thing and it will outhandle ANYTHING in the snow and slippery stuff. An SUV may get you moving, and maybe even stopped, in deep snow, but its bulk works against it every time you try to maneuver. Why do you think Subies make such good rally cars?

Not my car, but this is one of my favorite Subaru photos:

In reply to irish44j: Nice pics. Glad to hear from someone who owned a Subaru and Jeep. I got alot out of that. I'm still leaning Subaru with snow tires. Gotta sell the Crx first though.

In reply to Woody:

Absolutely awesome picture.

mspace wrote:

JeepinMatt wrote: I don't see any mechanical reason an AWD Subie would outperform a 4WD SUV, only an operator-related reason

One word: BULK. Unlike an SUV that doesn't handle well in the dry, an Impreza is a great handling car to begin with. Throw four cheap studded snows on the thing and it will outhandle ANYTHING in the snow and slippery stuff. An SUV may get you moving, and maybe even stopped, in deep snow, but its bulk works against it every time you try to maneuver. Why do you think Subies make such good rally cars?

True enough, I suppose. But ground clearance gets very important once you get into over a foot of snow. The first vehicle through my neighborhood this winter was my 85 C-30 Dooley, which sits up pretty high but only drives two wheels (granted, there's four big tires back there). Even without 4WD, it dug in and would go very well. I wouldn't have thought about putting my wife's A6 quattro out there. It would have been pushing snow with the grille. But we don't see snow like we had last winter very often. Not often enough to base a car-buying decision on it anyways.

ReverendDexter wrote:

miatame wrote: My wife's RAV4 is like this but has a button to "lock" the center diff so it is full time AWD.

If the center diff was locked, it wouldn't be AWD, it'd be 4WD.

Are you seriously going to have this argument with me?

mspace wrote:

JeepinMatt wrote: I don't see any mechanical reason an AWD Subie would outperform a 4WD SUV, only an operator-related reason

One word: BULK. Unlike an SUV that doesn't handle well in the dry, an Impreza is a great handling car to begin with. Throw four cheap studded snows on the thing and it will outhandle ANYTHING in the snow and slippery stuff. An SUV may get you moving, and maybe even stopped, in deep snow, but its bulk works against it every time you try to maneuver. Why do you think Subies make such good rally cars?

There was already a bit comparing the Cherokee's weight to the Impreza above. As far as handling, I would think that if you're in crap weather bad enough to consider buying a whole 4WD/AWD system, then conditions are probably bad enough that you shouldn't be blasting down the road. If I were driving on roads with condtions so bad that I felt I couldn't navigate them safely without 4WD/AWD, then I would be going slow enough that anything could get me to my destination right side up. My Jeep isn't so tipsy that I'll end up on my side after driving 15 MPH through a snowstorm. As for the Subie outhandling it, I can buy that. But in that kind of weather, you shouldn't be pushing the limits of even the worst-handling SUV/truck.

I believe you itch for a ratty 88-89 Celica AllTrac.

In reply to 93celicaGT2: I've searched for those too, needle in a haystack. I wanted one because if I ever got into an accident, I could do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tL7oDgnbxo&feature=related

check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-aK65ikdgE&feature=related

That's surprising actually...

There's been two within 10 minutes of me for sale within the last 6 months.

Hop on AllTrac.net and see what you can find. A ratty one in decent mechanical condition should be around $2000-$2500, and i would bet it would be a bit more fun than a cheap subaru. Because boost and all that.