I lost my mind (Jeep)

Keith wrote: BFG ATs look badass, but they suck in the white stuff.

Minor point: The BFG ATs are much better in the snow/ice than an MT. They're even severe service rated.

irish44j wrote: ^^ as he said, LCA drop, and keepint your BJs and bushings in good shape will keep the death wobble away. I got mine soon after I bought it (on 32s, with some worn suspension and steering). Once I replaced everything on the front end I never got it again. What lift you use really has alot to do with what you're doing with the truck or how much ride quality you're willing to sacrifice. I don't pretend to be a true XJ expert, and I sold it like 2-3 years ago so my memory is a bit hazy as well. I would do some drop shackles in the rear and maybe some Grand Cherokee springs up front initially. Don't do an immediate 3+" lift, because then you're going to need to worry about transfer case drops and/or slip-yoke modifications. On an XJ I like about 2-3" with 31s as an ideal setup for doing mostly anything aside from hardcore crawling. I woudln't use lift blocks in the rear, and add-a-leaf setups work fine, but make for a stiff ride.

Is there a true COMPLETE kit out there you would recommend? Old Man Emu seems to stop at 1.5" so far... but i haven't looked beyond Quadratrec.

Back in the days I was into pre-runners and four wheelers. I was amazed on how desert trucks glide through the umm desert with their long travel suspension and wheelers with their suspension articulating while climbing on the rocks. I forgot his name but I use to have vhs tapes of him hitting up trails like Rubicon and Moab. This forum is a bad influence...

That off-roading lifestyle looks pretty cool. Kind of like an autox community, with perhaps more seat time.

driver109x wrote: Back in the days I was into pre-runners and four wheelers. I was amazed on how desert trucks glide through the umm desert with their long travel suspension and wheelers with their suspension articulating while climbing on the rocks. This forum is a bad influence...

That is what i really want to do.... i'm not interested in rock crawling.... i am interested in doing remote higher-speed trails in a long-distance expedition setting.

I want to cross the arctic circle. The hard way.

Osterkraut wrote:

Keith wrote: BFG ATs look badass, but they suck in the white stuff.

Minor point: The BFG ATs are much better in the snow/ice than an MT. They're even severe service rated.

You're right, I was thinking of the MT.

If you want to see something cool, Googleate "King of the hammers". High speed desert running and extreme rock crawling all mixed up.

http://www.driveoffroad.com/4wd-school/

Also, Jeep Jamboree's look like a fun way to learn wheelin'.

Personally, I did it the hard way with Subaru's in Michigan's U.P. growing up.
I think a properly equiped 2" lifted Forester would be a decent trail runner if the ruts didn't get too deap.

I really need to find out what kind of lift is on it. Drove about 100 miles today. The tires do suck, and it bounces a lot, but holly E36 M3 is it fun. Took it to get emissions. That was a hoot. I got out the guy looked at me then went and found someone else to climb in it. Girlfriend hates it. The wave thing is getting a little annoying. I need snow. Its got 68,000 miles on it so hopefully it lasts awhile. Thanks I can't wait to go off road. Hell I would be happy with a dirt road at this point. I haven't driven a manual daily in about 3 years, so I will have to get used to that again.

Couple of general comments:

1) Wheeling with mods will quickly demonstrate the "weakest link" syndrome - when you strengthen some parts of the driveline, it can put higher stresses into other parts. Best examples I can think of are tall tires and air lockers. Those tall tires put a lot more strain on your axles, and with a locked diff and tight turns - snappo. I was coming over Black Bear Pass one year, which is a notorious western Colorado trail that is actually not real difficult technically, it's just dangerous because of the 800-foot sheer (and I mean SHEER) dropoffs on the outside of the switchbacks, driving our stock Toyota 4WD pickup, and happened on a blockage caused by an idiot who had gotten himself in deep trouble (happens every time on Black Bear). While waiting for the road to be cleared, I got to talking with a CJ driver who said he had snapped an axle on Imogene Pass the day before and had to install his spare on the trail. Yep, tall tires and locked. I've driven that trail a bunch of times, and you don't need a locked diff on it. If you have lots of leverage and no slippage, something will snap. So don't go overboard. Only use the gizmos you need at any given time.

2) For newcomers, wheeling is a lot like time trialing, only slower - to be good you have to pick the correct line and execute that line exactly. You're just doing 3 mph instead of 100.

3) Also for newcomers, in general, driving like they do in commercials will trash your truck.. The manufacturers often film in the mountains near where I live, and usually haul off the film trucks on trailers directly to the scrapyard. In general, in rough terrain the mantra is low (range) and slow. The best executed trail run is one where you never spin a wheel.

4) Tires are all important. Get the right ones for conditions. Where I live, I have to drive 7 miles of polished icy unpaved road to get to the pavement - so I always run four real snow tires with studs (legal here in Colorado). Again, just like racing, use the right tires for the conditions.

Lockers on Imogene? Wow. We drove that in our bone stock Grand Cherokee last year. Well, almost stock. I did disconnect the sway bars.

There's an ad for one of the full-size pickups on TV right now where the truck slams into a hole hard enough to jam the front wheel into the wheel well and lock the wheel. Makes me wince every time I see it. It's supposed to be cool, I think, but I suspect that truck did not come out of the hole whole.

One thing I've learned about the 'wheeling community is that many of them have a much, much more cavalier attitude towards safety and mechanically sound vehicles than racers do. It's probably due to the lack of kinetic energy involved, but I once had to rescue a jeep that had suffered a total brake failure because an abraded brake line blew out. Everybody knew it was abraded before they set out. But it hadn't broken yet. At least, not until it put two people in the hospital. Don't be that guy. Treat your rig like a race car.

If you're going to play in the rocks you really want to add armor before anything -else (especially considering that the Rubicons are pretty boss from the get-go and don't need much). Look into rock sliders first. They're bars that attach to the frame and stick out below your doors. That when when you fall/slide off a rock and hit your rocker panel (it WILL happen) you're covered. Door still opens, no body damage, everyone's happy. The 4:1 low range and F/R lockers will take you just about anywhere you'll ever want to go. They even run 33"s stock.

You're lucky the Rubicons have D44s. Normal wranglers had D30 front and D35 rear. Those axles were a joke.

Great thread. I'm getting ready to fix up my 65 Scout 800. Now I just need to find it under the rust that has grown on it...

As I have said many times before, the Cherokee XJ is the Miata of the 4x4 world. Massive aftermarket support, cheap to buy and maintain (mostly) and they are easy to find used.

curtis73 wrote: Great thread. I'm getting ready to fix up my 65 Scout 800. Now I just need to find it under the rust that has grown on it...

Love those old Scouts. What year is that and won't you have to replace just about every body panel on it?

Here it is they said 4inch lift but I don't know now. Strange guy at Safeway said it is 6.

that's not a 6" lift.....the oversize tires just make it look like a taller lift than it is.

If the ride is "bouncy" I'm gonna guess they did add-a-leafs in the rear. Wierd to see that forward rake. Most Jeeps I see tend to have a reverse rake

take some pics of the suspension and attachment points for the rear leaf springs and post them. That should make it more apparent what you have in there.

Thats what I thought. Its sitting on a bit of a slope in that pic. I will take pics under it tomorrow