I Need a Truck F150 versus F250.

In reply to JThw8 :

What's the reliability on the 3.5 turbo like?

I know the V8s will do well over 200K

I tow my 2500 lbs racecar on rented U-Haul trailers, which weigh 2300-2400 lbs and have rudimentary inertia brakes. I'm routinely going as far as Mosport, Tremblant, and VIR which are all about 400 miles away.

My tow vehicle is a modern (2024) Ram 1500 and you can barely tell the trailer is back there, even up and down the Adirondacks at a 70 mph cruise.

For your use, I'd think an F150 would be plenty.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

03Panther said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

. I assume you were not feeling well when you started this answer!

Did I say something offensive?

NO! Not offensive at all! I was being funny, (or attempting to be) as you mentioned the 150 being "rated" to tow 13K, without remembering to include what an unsafe marketing hype that is!

On the other hand, an F150 (F100, C10, 1500, or D1500) has not been a "1/2 ton" truck, since before either of us was driving! Probably before we were born, but I'd have to look that up. To be sure!

In reply to 03Panther :

I've towed that much with my 2012. It can do it.

Its not comfortable, but it doesn't feel any worse than any other truck towing at its limit of capacity. 
 

If I needed to tow that much regularly or for long distances, I definitely would use something bigger than an F150.

Driven5 said:

porschenut said:

Back to towing, I said this before and will say it again. Put BIG rear springs on the back.  Not air bags, not over riders.  I went 1000 pounds over stock and the difference towing is amazing.  Sway and bounce are barely noticeable and the WDH bars, which are a pain, stay in the shed now.

And no one tows a camper filled with water so do not include that in the numbers.

WDH isn't as much about weight added to the rear axle as it is weight removed from the front axle. Stiffening the rear springing, regardless of how it's accomplished, may help the former but does zero for the latter.

MANY experienced RV'ers pull their travel trailers with a full fresh tank. However, it is important to make sure the manufacturer didn't cut corners on tank mounting and support before doing so.

I have driven the rig with and without the WDH using the bigger springs and can say the steering feel is the same.  What isn't the same is sway, bouncing on uneven roads and stability when a big rig goes by.  Front end height change is under 1/4" hence my evaluation of with and without.  Before the heavier springs the front end lifted over an inch.

In the common RV forums carrying a full load of water in a travel trailer is a rookie move.  With a rig weight in the half ton tow group it matters.  But this is beyond the question posted so let us move on.

I would get the 250/2500, because towing with 'too much' truck is generally pleasant and relaxed, unlike the converse.  Modern (post ~2010ish) 3/4 tons are pretty darn comfy to drive*, and depreciation is slower than a 1/2 ton.   I've done the 'not enough truck' thing in the past and swore I'd never do it again.  For the last 10 years, I've been towing with full ton duallys, and once you do that it's hard to go backwards.

Two things to keep in mind:

1 - Tow 'ratings' are for level ground at sea level.

2 - RV 'brochure' weights are pure fantasy.

The only accurate RV weight is the one you get at the CAT scale, with the thing loaded and ready to go.

* I'm considering downgrading from our 3500 crew dually because I no longer haul a 4500lb slide-in camper, and a 2500 would be fine with our enclosed trailer.  I'm reluctant because of how well the dually tows anything/everything, but the ride of the newer 2500s is a lot better when not towing.  Now that our longer distance towing is done with our RV, I don't tow as much with the truck.  I drove a 2024 Ram 2500 the other day and it was a very pleasant ride.  But it's really hard to give up a truck I bought new, that's paid for, and still under 100k miles...

porschenut said:

In the common RV forums carrying a full load of water in a travel trailer is a rookie move.

I'll just leave this here then: Common RV forum threads about towing with water onboard.

Rodan said:

Tow 'ratings' are for level ground at sea level.

While not exactly 'high elevation', I would also not exactly call the Davis Dam test in SAE J2807 'level ground at sea level'.

I have an 18 foot toy hauler trailer, and have had a few around that size. Towing a camper trailer is, in my opinion, worse than towing just about anything else. They are usually 8.5 foot wide and quite tall to allow for standing space inside. They also never seem to weigh what they are supposed to. My 16 foot camper was supposed to weigh 3500ish lbs empty. It went across the scales at 4300 lbs. My current 18 footer is supposed to be something like 4100 lbs but scales out at 5150, I think I had water in the tank for that one.

My 1500 Silverado tows car trailers just fine. It towed the 16 foot camper okay, but was working hard on any kind of hill, or even a little bit of wind. I never towed far with it. It really won't tow the 18 footer at all, not if you want to go highway speeds. But it will tow 6500 lbs of car on an open trailer with zero complaints. 

A lot of people buy a small camper and then fairly quickly turn around and buy a bigger one. if you're leaning towards a 1/2 ton, make sure you're being honest with yourself that you're not going to want a bigger trailer and then have to get a bigger truck anyway.

Possibly unique to the toy hauler thing because of axle location, but tongue weight on some of these trailers is aggressive. My 18 footer is rated at 925 lbs tongue. that's a lot for most half ton trucks, usually even if the tongue is rated for it, the rear axle weight rating starts to come into play. You'll want to use a WD hitch regardless though, really helps with wallowing and overall vehicle dynamics regardless of the truck.

Size wise, modern 1/2 tons aren't any smaller than the 3/4 tons. The fords, at least, use the same basic cab from the F150 all the way up to the biggest ones last I checked, but that might have happened more recently than the age range you're looking at. The F250s do have a taller hood, frame, and suspension, and tend to have longer bed options. 2wd F250s are somewhat unusual at least where I live, but sit a lot lower. they are all quiet now. I drive a 2012 F250 for work frequently and it's a nice place to spend time. Ride quality isn't as good as my 3/4 ton chevy, (chalk it up to the solid front axle) but it's still perfectly acceptable unloaded.

this is an engine choice thing, not a 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton thing: We've towed with F150s with the 5.0 (we used to rotate who towed to races), it was miserable. 4500 rpm + the whole way, 6 to 10 hour drives. Had enough power, just not down low. The high rpm got pretty tiring even with stock exhaust. I think the ecoboost would have been better, but I've never towed bigger than a 6x12 with one of those. My chevy is generally at 2500 rpm, 3300 ish on hills, and even though it has more wind noise and worse insulation, it was much more relaxing as a result. If I was shopping fords towing a travel trailer like this over long distances, I'd focus on 3.5EB, the 7.3 Godzilla engine, or getting a powerstroke, just for the relaxation factor.

edit: I always pull with a full tank, but it depends on where you're going. I camp a lot. I've been to an RV park with hookups once in my life. Finding potable water fills isn't always the easiest thing to do. 

Tom1200 said:

In reply to JThw8 :

What's the reliability on the 3.5 turbo like?

I know the V8s will do well over 200K

They're pretty solid, particularly if you're looking at a 1st gen 3.5 like in the 2011 - 2016 F-150.  A friend put ~160k (might have been more, can't remember for sure) on a 2012 F-150 with the 3.5 turbo with no significant issues before he sold it to upgrade to an F-350.  And he worked the truck plenty hard.  

While towing the 3.5 will likely get similar mpg to the 5.0, maybe slightly worse, but the 3.5 has more grunt.  Un-loaded, the 3.5 will burn a bit less gas if you can keep your foot out of it.  In the 2011 - 2014 trucks they make basically the same HP (2015+ the 5.0 gained some HP), but the 3.5 has a lot flatter power curve and more grunt at low RPM.  It basically feels like a diesel that learned how to rev.  If it matters, the 5.0 sounds better, although with the stock exhaust they're both quiet. 

The 6.2 V8 was also an option in the 2010 - 2014 trucks, but only with certain option packages and it's pretty uncommon. 

In reply to gearheadE30 :

Got it, factor 1000lbs extra.  So I'm really looking at 6500lbs for the bigger trailers.  We are looking at everything from 19-25ft.

The 25ft trailers claim 5500lbs gross weight.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to JThw8 :

What's the reliability on the 3.5 turbo like?

I know the V8s will do well over 200K

rslifkin pretty much nailed it.  The 3.5 is a solid motor.  Same issues that plague all ford motors, cam phasers.  But I never had a phaser issue on mine.  Gotta be pretty religious with oil changes, no more than 5k between them and everything will be good for a long time.

Here are some of the additional dilemmas for me with an F250.

Most of them seem to be either 20-25 years old in the price range I have, the 6.8L Diesel which I've heard bad things about, have 200K on them already or they are just behemoths that I don't want to drive.

There's absolutely no need for an f250. The f150 already has 100% more capacity than you need for towing, that's plenty of headroom especially considering you're a cautious tower. For the rest of it you want the smallest truck you can get away with and absolutely don't want a diesel, especially not the Ford diesels that would be in your price range.

Tom1200 said:

Here are some of the additional dilemmas for me with an F250.

Most of them seem to be either 20-25 years old in the price range, have the 6.8L Diesel which I've heard bad things about, have 200K on them already or they are just behemoths that I don't want to drive.

I agree with not buying a 20 year old F-250 in then price range that you are looking at, but that is a slightly different question than half ton vs 3/4 ton.  Half ton is probably fine, but if you did want 3/4 ton for some reason, I would say to look at a Chevy over a Ford -- in that price and model year range Chevy just made better 3/4 ton trucks, IMHO.

One thing you haven't really mentioned is your towing destinations.  Is this for local flat stuff, or are you frequently towing over the grapevine, Tehachapi, or Donner pass?

If I were shopping for an older, reasonably priced F-250 and didn't want/need a diesel, I'd be looking at 08+ for the nicer interior, either the 08 - 10 with the 6.8 V10, or a 2011+ with the 6.2 V8. 

SV reX said:

In reply to 03Panther :

I've towed that much with my 2012. It can do it.

Its not comfortable, but it doesn't feel any worse than any other truck towing at its limit of capacity. 

My 03 350 is rated for less than 13K. I've towed 16K with it, and it felt no different than have that. 
Wife had her dads F150 max tow. It was "uncomfortable" driving at 9K. Any thing over that, would be unsafe for 85% of the people trying to tow with a F150. 
With your experience, I'm sure it was not unsafe. But you and I have towed WAY over "marketing numbers" all our lives. 
To suggest to someone that 13K on ANY F150 is safe, is borderline criminal. 
I've done worse, and so have others. 
but...

I've towed 4000 lbs through TN/AL mountains with a 92 Regal. Not as uncomfortable as the F150 at 9K. 
Just because it could, doesn't me it should have. 

In reply to rslifkin :

I love both. Either will hurt your feelings at the pump, and are WAY overkill for his needs! 
Cooler than less truck, but I couldn't recommend it as a practical plan, and I'm a bigger is better kind of guy!

03Panther said:

SV reX said:

In reply to 03Panther :

I've towed that much with my 2012. It can do it.

Its not comfortable, but it doesn't feel any worse than any other truck towing at its limit of capacity. 

My 03 350 is rated for less than 13K. I've towed 16K with it, and it felt no different than have that. 
Wife had her dads F150 max tow. It was "uncomfortable" driving at 9K. Any thing over that, would be unsafe for 85% of the people trying to tow with a F150. 
With your experience, I'm sure it was not unsafe. But you and I have towed WAY over "marketing numbers" all our lives. 
To suggest to someone that 13K on ANY F150 is safe, is borderline criminal. 
I've done worse, and so have others. 
but...

I've towed 4000 lbs through TN/AL mountains with a 92 Regal. Not as uncomfortable as the F150 at 9K. 
Just because it could, doesn't me it should have. 

Then fire up those lawyers and go after Ford.  My '17 F150 was rated for 12,200 and as most of us know they underrate most vehicles for legal reasons.   I towed near and sometimes over the limit many times and it did so without complaint and without feeling even the slightest bit unstable.

That also brings up another point for the OP, it will vary year to year obviously but on the '17 the 3.5 ecoboost had the highest tow rating of all offerings, at least 1000 lbs more than the 5.0

In reply to JThw8 :

I'm pretty sure the EB is rated higher than the 5.0 in all years. 

In reply to 03Panther :

I'm not sure what your beef is, but I don't see any complaints or issues online of any magnitude like what you are complaining about. 
 

My EB F150 is an extremely capable towing machine.  I don't have problems with the rated towing capacity. 
 

My V8 5.0 F150 is NOT as capable. 

SV reX said:

In reply to JThw8 :

I'm pretty sure the EB is rated higher than the 5.0 in all years. 

I would imagine you are correct, it has much higher torque numbers, I only had the numbers for my own truck on hand

In reply to JThw8 :

I think it's more than just peak torque numbers. I think it's about torque delivery. The EB has a very flat torque curve, and pulls through the entire range. The 5.0 is a dead dog coming off the line with a load behind it, and struggles to get up to speed (even when the load is well under half capacity).  Once it's up to speed it does fine.  

The tow mode in the 6 speed trans also seems to match better with the EB than the 5.0.  
 

There may also be a rear end gearing difference...

I tow 15k-20k on a daily basis. With how often I tow I like my truck to be overkill for my piece of mind so I have a f550 diesel. For your use case I think a 150/1500 would be more than capable. I would stay away from the coyote 5.0 personally. Fantastic motor in the mustangs, terrible truck motor for towing. Even in my mustang it is slow off the line. The coyote loves to rev. 

03Panther said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

03Panther said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

. I assume you were not feeling well when you started this answer!

Did I say something offensive?

NO! Not offensive at all! I was being funny, (or attempting to be) as you mentioned the 150 being "rated" to tow 13K, without remembering to include what an unsafe marketing hype that is!

On the other hand, an F150 (F100, C10, 1500, or D1500) has not been a "1/2 ton" truck, since before either of us was driving! Probably before we were born, but I'd have to look that up. To be sure!

Ah... gotcha.  Yeah, tow ratings are getting insane.  I remember when the 2018 C3500 Duramax trucks came out, they claimed they could tow 36,000.  I might try 15k, but not 36k.

Mattk said:

I tow 15k-20k on a daily basis. With how often I tow I like my truck to be overkill for my piece of mind so I have a f550 diesel. For your use case I think a 150/1500 would be more than capable. I would stay away from the coyote 5.0 personally. Fantastic motor in the mustangs, terrible truck motor for towing. Even in my mustang it is slow off the line. The coyote loves to rev. 

I've found the coyote in my truck to be great for towing, although I've only ever had about 5k pounds behind it. Livelier than the 6.0 in my gm van but I'm not afraid to let it rev if I need to get moving in a hurry.