I now officially hate working on my cars.

Chris_V said:

Teh E36 M3 said:

I've never really used a mechanic outside of warranty stuff. I hate being screwed so bad, that the idea makes me irritated enough to just do everything myself.

You may hate potentially BEING screwed, but screwing yourself over as in the OP is just as bad, if not worse.  And then you have no one else to blame for the screwing over. ;)

Nope. No way. I would much rather screw myself 100x for free than to pay 125 bucks an hour to get screwed once real hard. On something like the OP, there is a 99% chance the mechanic would jb weld something together and the leak would resurface 6 months down the road and take 5x longer to fix due to the first paid screwing. Maybe I have just had tremendously bad luck with shops and the professional high schoolers most employ. 

I find it's cyclical. There are times when I'm happy to dive into a series of jobs one after another, and others when the smallest thing seems like an enormous burden. Doesn't seem to matter if it's on a more modern car or not (though the modern stuff can certainly add to the frustrations, given the packaging). Paradoxically, I sometimes find doing some work on a car more therapeutic when I have a bunch of other stuff going on, especially if the job is something simple; an hour or two under a car and away from other problems can be very helpful in clearing the mind. The worst is when there's some problem that resists easy diagnosis, and you end up chasing it for a long period of time without resolution - that's soul-crushing.

I do normal maintenance and fun mods on my DD.  They're under warranty and I let the dealer techs do everything else. I tend to do all the work myself on my project cars and motorcycle, unless it's a job that I just don't care to do.  I've got an awesome VW Indy shop and Porshe Indy shop that do a great job on the stuff I don't want to do.

In reply to Chris_V :

Screwing myself on a repair is how I learn. If I never care to learn what to do or what not to do (and there are some scenarios where I've said berk it, its beyond me) then I hire an expert. My limitations are usually equipment based and the lack thereof, not skill or time based.

But to each their own. 

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:

Was it a 3/8" click torque wrench?

I have not found one yet that consistently clicks in actual use. 1/2" fine, 3/8" nope. I will ONLY use a beam-type torque wrench for the small fasteners.

It was a 1/2"er.  I now have a 3/8" in lb one, so I'll step it up in stages.  I also have a beam type that I should have used.         

I have been doing my own repairs and maintenance for years.  That includes multiple rebuilt engines, transmissions, etc.  However, the more electronic cars become the less inclined I am to work on them electrical stuff.  Even one of the closest repair shops doesn't like to get into ABS stuff or anything that takes a while.  The last thing a dealer did for me was the timing belt on this very same 4runner.  What started out as a $625 job escalated to $800+.   After I left the shop I called and told them to add new accessory belts.  They actually charged me to put those on, even though they would have put the old ones back on without the charge.        

Well walking away may have been the smartest thing I did yesterday.   Fresh eyes on it this morning showed I had more of the stud protruding that I thought.  A pair of vise gripes hunkered down got it to move.   So that bullet has been dodged.   Now to source a new one, so back to the dealer where they will have to special order it.   

BTW, I'm retired now so its not like I had to get the job done ASAP, and I didn't mind saving $400ish.    Or so I tell myself.  

Whenever I get into that situation, instead of posting on the forums about it, I simply just throw my tools across the garage, kick my toolbox, and let out a primal howl of frustration. Walking away and coming back with fresh eyes usually fixes it, as you just found out first hand. Nice job getting that stud out. I definitely would have put a hole in the drywall for that one. 

dean1484 said:

Why I only wrench on project cars. All the DD vehicles go to my local mechanic. 

All my cars are project cars now.  I have a long To Do list and not enough motivation to get it done.

In reply to spitfirebill :

You can probably get a new stud faster from McMaster than from the dealer for something that will be just as good. I like having stashes of common metric hardware around just for occasions like this. Heck, you can often just cut the head of a bolt in a pinch...

I also highly reccomend picking up a 1/4 inch drive torque wrench, that's the tool that finally got be to stop snapping off or stripping out smaller fasteners. Sure, my 1/2 inch claims it will go down to 10 lb-ft, but I'm skeptical of it below 30, and don't trust it at all below 20. The click type torque wrenches are happiest in the middle of their operating range, so I try to use the right wrench for whatever spec I'm torquing to -- it even just feels better in the hand.

Speaking of torque wrench related fails, thread lubrication (or lack there of) is also a factor: The accessory belt pulley on my TDI sawed most of the way through its bolts because of this, which I found out yesterday. I torqued the four M8x1.25 flange bolts to spec, but they were rubbing against the snout for the main crank bolt (expanded slightly by rust) so they never developed the clamping force intended by that spec. The clacking noise of the crank pulley slotting it's holes against the bolts finally became significantly noticeable yesterday, and I tore it all apart to discover the best carnage I've caused in some time. That said, I'd be a lot more annoyed if I'd paid money for someone else to do this; but since it's just me bumbleforking around in my garage that's just a "learning experience". Maybe that's just me not valuing my time appropriately, but it seems like a better use than a lot of other things I could be doing.

In reply to maschinenbau :

I pity what my neighbors have to hear.  At least they could use me as An example for their kids what not to grow up like.  

jwagner (Forum Supporter) said:

dean1484 said:

Why I only wrench on project cars. All the DD vehicles go to my local mechanic. 

All my cars are project cars now.  I have a long To Do list and not enough motivation to get it done.

The answer seems to be "keep buying more cars every time one needs repair". It hasn't let me down yet.

I have back and neck problems so I pay for big stuff like clutch jobs that require wrestling a transmission,  unless it's a toy, then I can't justify the money.  A cheap toy stops being either if the trans E36 M3s the bed.

Anything else I sub out would be if I lack the tools like alignments and tire mounting and balancing 

In reply to spitfirebill :

Ha! My wife usually comes out from her office (on the other end of the house) to remind me there are kids in the neighborhood. It's true.... but honestly their parents cuss like sailors too so I feel no guilt.

For me, it in part comes down to time versus money. I also have to consider physical wear and tear.
 

Grease under the nails and scraped knuckles may be a fact of life for some of us (and I've had far, far more of my share of both), but when I'm wrenching on a car, I have to consider that I could be doing surgery the next day. 

I've not had good luck with the HF 3/8" and 1/4" torque wrenches, so I upgraded to a CDI for the 3/8" and a brand I can't remember now for the 1/4" torque wrench.  I'm still super cautious, but they both seem to work better than the HF ones.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

As we age, those scrapes take longer to heal.  The other day a young tech friend came over to help diagnose an electrical problem.  I mentioned that to him and he nonchalantly says "yeah, I scraped this knuckle this morning."  We looked (me through my readers), and it was already mostly healed.

I do that and it's "well, guess I'm living injured for a couple of weeks."

I love working on cars.

I hate being forced to work on cars.

I often don't have time to do the former without turning into the latter.

I still do it. It's good to keep those skills sharpish, and good to have kids see the work, rather than the check.

We had a broken window at church. I typically fix those. It's a learning experience though. I found out which kid it was and spoke to his Dad. They had a chat, and the Dad offered $100 out of the kids savings plus the materials. I declined and told him to drop the kid off to work with me for an hour. It will have more impact to that kid than the cash would have.

Appleseed said:

In reply to Chris_V :

Screwing myself on a repair is how I learn. If I never care to learn what to do or what not to do (and there are some scenarios where I've said berk it, its beyond me) then I hire an expert. My limitations are usually equipment based and the lack thereof, not skill or time based.

But to each their own. 

I hate to "learn" on a car I or my wife needs the following day because I didn't have time to get to it until after the parts arrived and it's Sunday night. ;) Of course, I've had good rapport with a couple decent shops, so I've never been screwed by any. I have however gotten myself in situations where I've screwed myself for getting to work or to an appointment because something stupid happened when no parts store was open. I've done a LOT of work myself over the years and learned a lot. One of the main things I've learned is I'm over it. I no longer have to prove to anyone that I'm a manly cheapass. lol!

I still like to do my own paintwork (though I hate sanding) on the projects and fun cars, but I got rid of the projects that require engine rebuilds and electrical work and suspension repairs, only wanting to do fun little mods now. It's why I got the JCW. I didn't want to mod the engine or suspension. And any work outside of regular maintenance it needs will be checkbooked when I feel like it, as it's not a daily driver. But I have too much going on to be under a car late at night.

Chris_V said:

Appleseed said:

In reply to Chris_V :

Screwing myself on a repair is how I learn. If I never care to learn what to do or what not to do (and there are some scenarios where I've said berk it, its beyond me) then I hire an expert. My limitations are usually equipment based and the lack thereof, not skill or time based.

But to each their own. 

I hate to "learn" on a car I or my wife needs the following day because I didn't have time to get to it until after the parts arrived and it's Sunday night. ;) Of course, I've had good rapport with a couple decent shops, so I've never been screwed by any. I have however gotten myself in situations where I've screwed myself for getting to work or to an appointment because something stupid happened when no parts store was open. I've done a LOT of work myself over the years and learned a lot. One of the main things I've learned is I'm over it. I no longer have to prove to anyone that I'm a manly cheapass. lol!

I still like to do my own paintwork (though I hate sanding) on the projects and fun cars, but I got rid of the projects that require engine rebuilds and electrical work and suspension repairs, only wanting to do fun little mods now. It's why I got the JCW. I didn't want to mod the engine or suspension. And any work outside of regular maintenance it needs will be checkbooked when I feel like it, as it's not a daily driver. But I have too much going on to be under a car late at night.

Whoa whoa, time out. Tell me how you did that really cool paint effect.

tuna55 said:

Whoa whoa, time out. Tell me how you did that really cool paint effect.

Added that info to my thread: Mini Cooper thread

it's on the bottom of page 1

In reply to MrRobogoat (Forum Supporter) :

I went to the dealer who of course didn't have the studs in stock.  "They could get them the next day".  Only they sent the wrong ones.  Now they will be in tomorrow!  If they fail again, I'll hit the nearest Ace Hardware.