Post 1901.
Post 1901.
1988RedT2 said:frenchyd said:Boost_Crazy said:In reply to frenchyd :
I agree with you. So at what point do you think Tesla joins Sears / Kodak / Blackberry?
I don't know. Sears got over 100 years as did Kodak. GM is over 100 years as is Ford.
That's incorrect. GM went away with its bankruptcy in 2009. Shareholders of GM stock got zilch. GM's re-animated corpse was resuscitated by the government. https://money.cnn.com/2009/06/01/news/companies/gm_bankruptcy/
I'll give you the others, though.
You may be correct. See, I used to buy Chevrolets made by GM. And Chevy's are still sold but they aren't made by GM anymore ?
Indy - Guy said:Sorry to break it to you Frenchyd:
Link to story.
Incoming 'No, this story I read from 2021 tells me it's rolling down the production line any second now...' in 3-2-1...
Page 77, Oi I'm in heaven.
In reply to Tom1200 :
Hell or high water, I garuntee you a hundo. You'll get your 3 digits, Mr. 1200.
racerfink said:Indy - Guy said:Sorry to break it to you Frenchyd:
Link to story.
Incoming 'No, this story I read from 2021 tells me it's rolling down the production line any second now...' in 3-2-1...
A problem discussed in the article, is with the suspension dynamics. Apparently, there's weird reactions and vibrations under certain conditions. It might require geometry changes and thus a redesign to correct.
Truck suspension (with higher ride height, heavier tires & the requirement for vehicle load capacity) is different than car suspension.
That's ABSOLUTELY one advantage Ford has over Tesla. Ford has been building and developing truck suspension for over 100 years so that wasn't a problem for them to work out when launching the Lightning F-150
In reply to Indy - Guy :
Yeah I read it to, and frankly it just sounded like preproduction prototype issues, like the kinds that computers can't simulate.
In reply to Wally :
The busses have hub motors driving the middile wheels? I didn't know they had massive hubs like that. Do you have pics?
Also, +1 for trolley busses.
This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.
Indy - Guy said:racerfink said:Indy - Guy said:Sorry to break it to you Frenchyd:
Link to story.
Incoming 'No, this story I read from 2021 tells me it's rolling down the production line any second now...' in 3-2-1...
A problem discussed in the article, is with the suspension dynamics. Apparently, there's weird reactions and vibrations under certain conditions. It might require geometry changes and thus a redesign to correct.
Truck suspension (with higher ride height, heavier tires & the requirement for vehicle load capacity) is different than car suspension.
That's ABSOLUTELY one advantage Ford has over Tesla. Ford has been building and developing truck suspension for over 100 years so that wasn't a problem for them to work out when launching the Lightning F-150
You are focusing on something 2 years ago. I was reporting an article 3 days old. Froze several sources. The assembly line running producing preproduction trucks for testing etc.
Don't worry, nobody is fixing you to buy one. If you don't like them, may I suggest you simply ignore them?
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
They're made by New Flyer. If I understand the contract correctly 60ft electrics are about 30% more, about $1.2 million each but that includes charge points and installation. They're also expected to save $400,000 in energy and maintenance costs over a twelve year lifespan. We generally get more than the required twelve years, in many cases closer to twenty. Since it's still new I have no information on if that means we'll save more or less, though the engineering guy I talk to said the motors and other bits usually see 30+ years of service in trams.
It's wonderful to know that electrics are working. As they become more and more common the premium for electrics should disappear to the point where electrics will have a lower purchase price then ICE. But not while still building vehicles like ICE and simply swapping in electrics and barriers in place of the Engine and transmission.
I know city buses to a degree. Some are long lasting 40+ years old while some barely finish a 5 year lease. It makes sense to use electric in a lot of operations. Pollution is real and those exposed to a lot of diesel exhaust have a higher rate of Asthma and breathing difficulties.
In reply to frenchyd :
A few posts back, Wally said the busses typically get replaced on a 12 year interval.
In reply to Indy - Guy :
I suspect it's like most cities when maintenance, & operating costs exceed new equipment. With adjustments made based on city finances.
frenchyd said:Indy - Guy said:racerfink said:Indy - Guy said:Sorry to break it to you Frenchyd:
Link to story.
Incoming 'No, this story I read from 2021 tells me it's rolling down the production line any second now...' in 3-2-1...
A problem discussed in the article, is with the suspension dynamics. Apparently, there's weird reactions and vibrations under certain conditions. It might require geometry changes and thus a redesign to correct.
Truck suspension (with higher ride height, heavier tires & the requirement for vehicle load capacity) is different than car suspension.
That's ABSOLUTELY one advantage Ford has over Tesla. Ford has been building and developing truck suspension for over 100 years so that wasn't a problem for them to work out when launching the Lightning F-150
You are focusing on something 2 years ago. I was reporting an article 3 days old. Froze several sources. The assembly line running producing preproduction trucks for testing etc.
Don't worry, nobody is fixing you to buy one. If you don't like them, may I suggest you simply ignore them?
Maybe you should slow down your posting, so you can see simple details that rip your trolling to shreds... like dates on articles.
In reply to frenchyd :
To qualify for federal financing they have to have a minimum 12 year service life. No city buses are only lasting five years. This was a huge issue in the early 80s when NYC bought a batch of Flxible buses that were poorly built. They had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get out of them early.
As for simply swapping drivetrains, it's the same problem Tesla is having whit their semis. Commercial vehicles are laid out a certain way because that's how they work most efficiently. The bus doesn't care what's pushing it, it's still got to do the same thing. A lot of "revolutionary" designs have been tested here and failed miserably. Trucks are the same way. They've all evolved into very similar packages because that's what works.
Indy - Guy said:A problem discussed in the article, is with the suspension dynamics. Apparently, there's weird reactions and vibrations under certain conditions. It might require geometry changes and thus a redesign to correct.
Truck suspension (with higher ride height, heavier tires & the requirement for vehicle load capacity) is different than car suspension.
That's ABSOLUTELY one advantage Ford has over Tesla. Ford has been building and developing truck suspension for over 100 years so that wasn't a problem for them to work out when launching the Lightning F-150
Rivian seems to do OK. I assume they hired the right people and let them do their thing. I also assume that Tesla did not.
A poster on another board works in Detroit for an automotive engineering firm. His take is that it is very hard for Tesla to hire experienced engineers. An experienced engineer (HW or SW) in Michigan makes enough to live very well in a way that can't be duplicated working for Tesla. Throw in the reputation as an awful place to work and they have a lot of trouble recruiting. Mistakes are made as a result.
frenchyd said:In reply to Indy - Guy :
I suspect it's like most cities when maintenance, & operating costs exceed new equipment. With adjustments made based on city finances.
So just make up a statement and ignore the guy that does it for a living. Why am I not surprised?
mfennell said:Rivian seems to do OK. I assume they hired the right people and let them do their thing. I also assume that Tesla did not.
A poster on another board works in Detroit for an automotive engineering firm. His take is that it is very hard for Tesla to hire experienced engineers. An experienced engineer (HW or SW) in Michigan makes enough to live very well in a way that can't be duplicated working for Tesla. Throw in the reputation as an awful place to work and they have a lot of trouble recruiting. Mistakes are made as a result.
Probably true. I don't have experience dealing with the automotive side of Tesla, but I Do have first hand experience with the solar panel manufacturing side (think Giga-Factory).
About 6 or 7 years ago, a company I worked for, was designing a custom piece of automation for the factory. Our first design review with the Tesla project engineer, (upon seeing or concept): she says on the call "Cool, I've never seen anything like that" She said it was her first time reviewing equipment of this type.
After the conference call, we were all shocked that Tesla had somebody with Zero experience granted the authority to approve such a safety critical item.
So, if the Cyber truck team is anything like that. I can see trouble brewing.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
Hey remember when you told me this:
Steve_Jones said:In reply to bobzilla :
You seem rather upset about a thread no one is forcing you to click on.
trolls are good because they suck you in.
In reply to bobzilla :
Yeah, but I'm not upset, I'm having fun.
This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.
Indy - Guy said:mfennell said:Rivian seems to do OK. I assume they hired the right people and let them do their thing. I also assume that Tesla did not.
A poster on another board works in Detroit for an automotive engineering firm. His take is that it is very hard for Tesla to hire experienced engineers. An experienced engineer (HW or SW) in Michigan makes enough to live very well in a way that can't be duplicated working for Tesla. Throw in the reputation as an awful place to work and they have a lot of trouble recruiting. Mistakes are made as a result.
Probably true. I don't have experience dealing with the automotive side of Tesla, but I Do have first hand experience with the solar panel manufacturing side (think Giga-Factory).
About 6 or 7 years ago, a company I worked for, was designing a custom piece of automation for the factory. Our first design review with the Tesla project engineer, (upon seeing or concept): she says on the call "Cool, I've never seen anything like that" She said it was her first time reviewing equipment of this type.
After the conference call, we were all shocked that Tesla had somebody with Zero experience granted the authority to approve such a safety critical item.
So, if the Cyber truck team is anything like that. I can see trouble brewing.
Just because I've selected Tesla, doesn't mean it has to be anyone else's choice.
Nor does anyone has to select any EV.
They can travel by ICE, steam, or even horse.
Elon Musk didn't invent EV's, he just popularized them. He is on track to sell 2 million this year and eventually 20 million a year.
I don't like his politics and I'd probably hate working for him.
But I'm driving a Ford now. Henry Ford popularized the horseless carriage while not inventing it or even the assembly line.
His politics are appalling. He was close personal Friends with Hitler who had Fords picture on his wall and tried to keep America from preparing for war.
So perhaps really successful people aren't my cup of tea. I'll let others choose for themselves.
This thread reminds me of the Mythbusters water heater episode; I can't believe how high it's gone.
In reply to frenchyd :
Nope.
Tesla's manufacturing is currently outpacing their sales. In Q1 2023 they made 18,000 more vehicles than they were able to sell. Now they have excess inventory. (That's $900 million worth of unsold inventory).
They will NOT outsell Ford this year, and they will definitely NOT sell 10 times as many vehicles as Ford in the near future.
Where do you get these numbers? Even Tesla isn't saying that.
In reply to mfennell :
A lot, if not a majority, of the folks at Rivian seem to be ex-Mitsubishi, ex-Caterpillar, ex-Deere, or ex-Big 3.
Here is a haggerty article on an interview with their founder from 2010: https://www.hagerty.com/media/automotive-history/before-his-battery-behemoths-rivians-billionaire-founder-made-an-eco-sports-car/
Here's a breakthrough that may change the game for EVs.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars
mfennell said:Indy - Guy said:A problem discussed in the article, is with the suspension dynamics. Apparently, there's weird reactions and vibrations under certain conditions. It might require geometry changes and thus a redesign to correct.
Truck suspension (with higher ride height, heavier tires & the requirement for vehicle load capacity) is different than car suspension.
That's ABSOLUTELY one advantage Ford has over Tesla. Ford has been building and developing truck suspension for over 100 years so that wasn't a problem for them to work out when launching the Lightning F-150
Rivian seems to do OK. I assume they hired the right people and let them do their thing. I also assume that Tesla did not.
A poster on another board works in Detroit for an automotive engineering firm. His take is that it is very hard for Tesla to hire experienced engineers. An experienced engineer (HW or SW) in Michigan makes enough to live very well in a way that can't be duplicated working for Tesla. Throw in the reputation as an awful place to work and they have a lot of trouble recruiting. Mistakes are made as a result.
Sounds like exactly what he is doing to Twitter right now. How would you like to work at a place where the boss won't pay the rent and you can get tossed out of the office by the landlord at any time?
I am surprised that he can keep Twitter running at all, but it's still there. And there are still more Teslas in my office parking lot than any other brand of EV. And SpaceX seems to be the only ones other than the Russians who can get us to the space station.
Elon Musk is like the guy riding a unicycle on a high wire. He may not do everything well, but it is amazing he can do what he does at all.
The theory has been well known for a long time. Yet in spite of a lot of research in Japan,Germany, and even here in America it hasn't proved out.
There are plenty of other interesting alternatives though none with so great a promise.
Really the whole idea of quick recharge is really meaningless. There are several cars capable of 400+ miles on a single charge. Those that are Tesla can add 200 miles in 15 minutes.
Yes there will be slight changes in driving. People will plug in every night and unplug in the morning. Plus they will recharge mid trip for 15 minutes or so rather than wait until the tank is empty.
But do just a little math. 600 miles is 10 hours. People need to eat a couple of times in that period. Plus no one's bladder can go that long without relief.
But that is nothing compared to our grandfathers who had to do a great deal to ride horses. Among them is let the horse graze daily.
Just because Batteries aren't capable of instant refills doesn't mean they will need to be. Sweden, and Germany already have roads with contactless recharging while in Motion. When that occurs here in the US the heavy batteries will be gone and small lighter batteries with only 50-100 mile range used.
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