I still don't see EV's Replacing ICEs.

In reply to Tom1200 :

A friend put forth the thought that EV equipment (busses and semis etc) will not drop in price as quickly as other EV offerings because of the large cost tied up in raw materials/batteries, and a large jump in technology (to use less raw materials or a more readily available material) is likely required for them to even be close to their ice counterparts. Not an EV fan so I didnt feel like looking into it, id be curios what some of the people who have mentioned they are more involved in this think.

In reply to Opti :

I'd agree with those thoughts on pricing. Wally pointed out there are some real benefits to EV buses and the cost in his example is a wash.

Tom's post about his new EV truck sums things up nicely for me. He's not towing more than 80 miles one way, most of the driving will be local and the cost was similar to other trucks.

For me a tow vehicle is a tool used once a month. I've never spent more than 5K on one. My current camper van is a 9K investment (4K for the van, 2K for a newly rebuilt and upgraded trans, $2500 to repair the AC etc.) there's know way we'll ever get anything like that even in a used EV for 9K.

I think if we polled a wide range of people we'd get a 50/50 split on what works for them as far has a truck goes for them. I would also think that trend would be the same for various municipalities. It will work great for some but not so great for others.

The whole 2030 deadline is  "ooo look at me savior of the planet" political pandering. 2040 or 2050 is a lot more sensible and realistic for those goals. My mom and her sisters are 88, 89 & 92.............so I may well be here in 2050 (by here I mean both the planet and the GRM forum). Only time will tell on all of this.  

In reply to Tom1200 :

all good points. We don't tow often, but when we do it's hundreds of miles one way usually so an EV is not practical for that to me. Could we have done an EV for the wife's car? Maybe. The plan is her car doubles as medium distance vacation mobile to carry the dogs. Gainesville, Philly ... typically 7-900 miles each way. Could we have gotten an EV for the same price as her car that could do all that ($24k)? Likely not. Could my car have been an ev? Well, my requirements for a new daily were :

1.) manual trans

b.) fun to drive

iii.) not be a soul sucking appliance.

You tell me. 

Tom1200 said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

Medicine is not relevant to this discussion is it? And besides I find as a profession they are trying to surpass lawyers in loss of trust currently.  That's probably not a topic anyone cares to discuss openly or honestly.  

Most importantly this place is meant as an escape...............our version of tough topics is why someone wants to put an Ecoboost in a Rad Era Porsche. 

That would be great.  I'd love to have an escape.  Sadly one side of most every issue gets crammed down everyone's throat now without considering any other possibilities.  
 

Let's take this thread as an example.  Some posters have decided since they don't agree with Frenchy and don't understand his point of view, and he is old, that he must be mentally impaired.  Those very same people won't question mental impairment of other old people that show much stronger signs of being mentally impaired because it goes against the one side being crammed down everyone's throats continuously.  
 

So if people are going to shovel nonsense at everyone all day long, why am I supposed to be nice about it?  
 

I'm not going to research which post, but super early in this thread I said the goals being foisted on everyone to convert to EVs (by that same side no less) were uniformed and I realistic.  Now magically 7X pages later there are posts echoing and agreeing with that.  

So yes Tom, you are right it would be awesome to escape all the nonsense and have a place to share and dream and be honest.  Sadly that place doesn't exist.  Perhaps it never did.  I am not interested in pretending for the sake of being perceived as nice either.  Pretending for the sake of being nice is being used to destroy not improve.  

This is berkeleying ponderous man. 
 

In reply to frenchyd :

We've had this discussion. Not everyone lives on an interstate poorly designed and jammed with people. 

frenchyd said:

Very few major cities don't have exactly the same problem.  Traffic has increased  massively   Since originally designed.   
    But you are a small percent of the population.  
   I'll admit I prefer to drive through rural areas both for the lack of traffic and the ability to see the countryside.  

So the interstate highway system hasn't been upgraded and maintained as population and demand has grown?  Agree!  Now do the power grid!   

In reply to bobzilla :

Your first two reasons are why they are out for me as well.

In reply to frenchyd :

You keep thinking the power plants are the grid.  That is not the case.  The power plants make power and the grid is the network of transformers, breakers and cables that transmit it.  The power plants are like cities and the grid is the network of interstate roads that connect them.  Just like the interstate highways the grid is ill repaired and rarely upgraded.  Elon could make free energy fly out of his rear end, and it won't fix the grid.  
 

And a giga battery sounds impressive but it isn't.  CA did a study by some CA university and to meet their zero carbon goal by 2045 they need 1,650 giga watts of new power.  I did some rough math and that's over 100 new nuclear power plants or giga battery equivalents.  The manpower and resources to achieve that do not exist.  Our education system has failed.  You think power generation sources are the grid is just one example.  If you want to discuss the grid, learn what it is first.  
 

P.S. the story about CA came from an industry publication I read on a near daily basis called Energy daily.  If you are really interested in the math, I estimated an average nuke plant makes about 1250 MW electric.  New modular units are going to be 200ish MW but scaleable to make what ever size is needed.  
 

The energy crisis is real.  Solving it is actually possible.  It's becoming less likely with each passing day thanks to poor education and terrible journalism combined with moronic leadership.  I sure can't turn this tide alone so start reading real information!  

An even simpler explanation....  ever play connect the dots?  Power plants are dots.  Loads are dots.  The grid is how you connect the dots.  The grid is not the dots and it doesn't  matter how your dots generate power.  It does matter that the power has stable voltage and frequency.  No amount of new dots to replace old dots will fix the grid.  And a lot of the new dots are less stable than the old dots.  Nuclear power plants are huge dots with stable power output when operated efficiently and safely.

frenchyd said:

Very few major cities don't have exactly the same problem.  Traffic has increased  massively   Since originally designed.   
    But you are a small percent of the population.  
   I'll admit I prefer to drive through rural areas both for the lack of traffic and the ability to see the countryside.  

THEN DON'T LIVE IN A DAMN CITY. 

In reply to frenchyd :

If you ever need electrical work done, I REALLY hope that you hire experienced electricians, and not people who will just do what you tell them because you pay them nicely, because it's clear you have a 2nd grade understanding of electricity.

In reply to frenchyd :

First.  Are you aware that NYC is Buying a Giga battery  system from Tesla. The city has enough power  to meet needs except  during peak demand times.   By buying power during off peak periods when it's cheap.  He can sell sell it for a really serious  profit.  
    Down n Texas it's a 50-1 payback.  I don't know the deal in Australia   But that was the first conversion. In 100 days they shut down a coal fired power plant and ran the whole area 100% on renewables. 
 

Can you please explain the 50-1 payback in Texas? 

I also couldn't find any info on Tesla selling a battery system to NYC AND buying and selling the stored power at a profit, which really wouldn't make any sense.  I believe you got most of the details wrong- the buyer, the seller, and who profits from the energy storage. But it does highlight an issue that bothers me. This does nothing to help the residents that ultimately pay for their power. Rather than build infrastructure to keep up with demands of the customers, they penalize customers with higher rates to control their use. Then they allow 3rd party companies (from what I can see, these projects are run by 3rd party developers  who purchase the equipment and sell the power at a higher rate) to profit off of the end users who are being underserved. 

I'll be honest, I would love to see the mods shut this thread down. Just me, but I'm longing for something more interesting at this point. If I'm the only one, carry on. :)

CyberEric said:

I'll be honest, I would love to see the mods shut this thread down. Just me, but I'm longing for something more interesting at this point. If I'm the only one, carry on. :)

Why? Someone forcing you to click on it? Don't like it? Don't read it.

Time for us to press pause on this thread? 

How will we reach 100 pages if it gets locked?

Indy - Guy said:

How will we reach 100 pages if it gets locked?

Keep the conversation civil and respectful, and it stays open. 

David S. Wallens said:

Time for us to press pause on this thread? 

Why? Who is forcing them to read it?  i will never understand the mentality of wanting a thread locked because you don't like it.