I still don't see EV's Replacing ICEs.

frenchyd said:

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

A $4000 Chinese car is not going to be legal in the US. It's basically a golf cart. 

I don't know how to show it to you but no it's more than a Golf cart. It's an actual city car.  
 No it probably won't come here for a whole bunch of safety reasons ( like airbags ). Plus the  unions would have a fit.  
  You see that size car in Europe where it is legal. 

  

Trying hard to not jump into a fraught argument but have to comment.  I've worked with the Chinese OEM's for 10yrs.  They were hilariously terrible at the start.  Now I would 100% stand behind a Geely, BAIC, or NIO EV.  Yes, they do all offer dirt cheap go kart options aimed at displacing the motorbike crowd but they also have REALLY good cars in their mid to high end.  US and EMEA mfg's are working hard to keep them out of their market s out of market compeititio fears not safety concerns.

Unlike Betty White, this might make it to 100. 

In reply to 84FSP :

I'd like to hear more about your interaction with them if & when you're willing to share.

In reply to 84FSP :

Seconded with Indy guy! Stories of starting any new domestic industry from the ground-up sounds super interesting.

Like you, I don't auto diss a chinese manufacturer. They can make great stuff- its just that most people don't look to BUY great stuff from them.

84FSP said:

frenchyd said:

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

A $4000 Chinese car is not going to be legal in the US. It's basically a golf cart. 

I don't know how to show it to you but no it's more than a Golf cart. It's an actual city car.  
 No it probably won't come here for a whole bunch of safety reasons ( like airbags ). Plus the  unions would have a fit.  
  You see that size car in Europe where it is legal. 

  

Trying hard to not jump into a fraught argument but have to comment.  I've worked with the Chinese OEM's for 10yrs.  They were hilariously terrible at the start.  Now I would 100% stand behind a Geely, BAIC, or NIO EV.  Yes, they do all offer dirt cheap go kart options aimed at displacing the motorbike crowd but they also have REALLY good cars in their mid to high end.  US and EMEA mfg's are working hard to keep them out of their market s out of market compeititio fears not safety concerns.

I'm not questioning that the Chinese can't deliver a quality product, they do. But a $4000  car isn't likely to be one. BYD's trucks and buses aren't selling substantially cheaper than any other make. A quality product is going to cost a certain amount to produce. 

I'm thinkin' Frenchy can get this to 100 pages, if we just drop in "??" every once in a while...

(Grin)

In reply to frenchyd :

Let's take that same ICE at the beginning.   Before Model T's when cars where just coming around.  Say 1910?   What was the percentage of cars to horses?  I'll bet less than 7%. 
 Once the Model T came around and it started  it's downward  price spiral they got a whole lot cheaper.   
     So about 1920'ish?   Cars started catching up to horses?  

  The same issues, where do we get gasoline?   How far away from home can we go?   Plus horses make other horses free.  They can eat grass free 
   It all had to be figured out. 

In Europe they were ahead of America. Right up to Henry FordsModel T. 

         Same with Europe today.   You think it's only about air pollution?    What about all that money that leaves Germany and France etc going to Saudi Arabia? Or Iran,  or some place in Africa?  
  Heck, EV's power comes from wind, sun,  and in some cases nuclear but it stays in country. 
  Yet Europe doesn't get 1/5th the Sun America gets, or 1/4 the wind the Midwest gets. In fact  pretty much everything west of the Mississippi gets plenty of sun and decent or even the best wind in the world.   Up in the mountains Solar really works well.   There are mountain passes  where wind is steady and strong. 
 If you actual read my posts I'm in favor of the new modual nuclear options.  Because yes there will be times when it's night, and the wind isn't blowing. 

   Here  in America  we have states  trying to keep money inside its borders.  The millions/ billions that leave the state to buy gas/ oil / coal  doesn't come back. 
       If pollution sells that story?  OK it's about pollution. 
      With me?  I don't worry that the utility company won't have enough money.  I worry about me.  Now I don't have oil on my property. Nor coal but the wind blows and the sun shines.  That will do.   
 

Let's pretend that everything above is true, and somehow relates to the topic. 
 

So what? 

I, and currently 93% of new car buyers really don't care that much about anything you mentioned above. When buying a car, it's a mix of cost/benefit analysis combined with how much I want the car and how much better that car will make my life. Everything you mentioned above is well down that list. You hint at cost savings, which is high on the list. But here you are, trying to convince us that you have the math problem right, but have yet to show the class your work. Show the math. With real numbers, produced by cars that exist. If you are correct, it should be easy and irrefutable. Show the math. 

From another of your posts...

  Tesla's system is reported faultless  and extremely fast.  Plug it into the charger and that $5-6 charge is automatic no card needed

Show us where you got this number. I know the correct answer and you are off by at least a factor of 3, best case scenario from the cheapest charger in the country. You are off by a factor of 5 or 6 from the average cost. It is impossible to have any discussion about cost when you just make up numbers.

The new Suburban gets 57mpg combined, 63mpg uphill. With no haggle pricing and a coupon, Chevy will sell you one for $25k. The average price of gas is $2 per gallon, so driving the average of 40 miles per day would only cost you $512.28 per year. If you replace a 2005 Civic with a new Suburban, it will pay for itself in only 58 years. Less if you live at the top of a hill. 

frenchyd said:

   I think the less said the better.  

The irony dripping from that comment is one of the funniest things I've ever read!

I passed a Mach-E Mustang tonight.

Remind me what the hive thinks about them compared to others in the market today.

boulder_dweeb said:

I'm thinkin' Frenchy can get this to 100 pages, if we just drop in "??" every once in a while...

(Grin)

Frenchy doesn't need ANY of us to drop in anything at all to get this to 100. 

Indy - Guy said:

I passed a Mach-E Mustang tonight.

 

Remind me what the hive thinks about them compared to others in the market today.

I have a coworker that owns one and loves it.  He sometimes travels across parts of 3 states which requires a bit of planning and extended brakes but it works.  As infrastructure to support EVs improves, so will their appeal.  

Hi ho, hi ho, only 10 pages to go, hi ho.

Funny to see the BYD love after I just posted this on the last page...

In reply to racerfink :

I'm not a huge fan of theirs, but they have more commercial EVs on the road than anyone else.  They're here, throughout Europe, South America, and Africa. If their buses and trucks were regularly catching fire it would be reported somewhere besides a couple YouTube videos. 

frenchyd said:

STM317 said:

frenchyd said:

STM317 said:

frenchyd said:

Racingsnake said:

frenchyd said:

I just got tired of giving away $50-70  every time I pulled into one of those places. 

Not tired enough to buy an EV yet tho lol

The EV I want isn't in production. 
  If you recall I was very interested  in the Chevy Bolt.  At $28,000,  but the batteries  continue to be an issue and the charging network isn't as good. Plus GM announced they were discontinuing production.  
     When Tesla Announced the series 2  ( at $25,000) I decided to wait.  
    It is projected to have longer range with safer batteries. Plus access to the best charging network available.  
  While you may be willing to take whatever is available I prefer to make my selection carefully. 

You may prefer to make your selection carefully, but apparently not carefully enough to realize that the Model 2 is still imaginary and unconfirmed.

For the last time, Tesla hasn't announced anything regarding the Model 2. Everything that you're spouting in regard to an inexpensive new Tesla is speculation and rumor. Musk breifly mentioned it and hinted that it might happen eventually but that's super vague even by his standards.

You're an overweight guy in his mid 70s. You're not getting any younger. Each day that you spend waiting for a unicorn Model 2 is a day that could've been spent cruising quietly and effortlessly in any of the $25k EVs that are currently available. Instead of going out and actually buying an EV right now that meets your needs, you're pinning your hopes on a mythical cheap Tesla Model 2 that's likely years away if it ever happens at all.

With each of your posts it becomes more obvious that you're not going to actually buy an EV like you're imploring others to do. Or you're going to waste your final days waiting for something, and then find a flaw in it if it does eventually become reality.

Oh a guessing game now?   Well I predict you're going to win a big lottery  and waste all your money on hookers and blow..  

Let's  see which happens first .  Your prediction or mine.   

You're ignoring perfectly good EVs right now to wait and see what might be out there in a few years.  That's not at all like playing the lottery. It would be more like choosing to play the lottery while ignoring CDs that pay 5% guaranteed.

You talk like this purchase has to last you 30 years, so it's worth taking your time to see what's out there on the horizon. I'm sorry to say that you probably don't have 30 years left, so you might as well enjoy your time. You've been telling everybody for 80 some pages that EVs are currently good enough for their use, but you're not willing to back those claims up with your own money. You could have a Bolt or used Tesla today for your budget, and yet you're comfortable to sit back and burn precious time waiting for something that may never happen.

If there's no EV on the market that's good enough for you to buy right now, then all of your posts telling others that EVs are great and will meet their needs are completely hollow. That (and the often incorrect numbers you spout) are why you get so much push back. Instead of just saying "Man, EVs are cool and I can't wait for one that meets my needs" you've been preaching for months and it's empty and tired.

If those EV's suit you, then by all means go ahead and buy one.   
  I've explained why I'm waiting. If you're in such a hurry, go ahead. I won't stop you. 
   I'll admit that Chevy's EUV is astonishingly good looking. It probably meets your requirements and it's available right now.  

I'm not looking for an EV. I'm perfectly happy with my cheap, reliable, comfortable PHEV for a daily driver. In 2018 my needs changed and I paid $16k for a 2 year old Fusion Energi with 23k miles. It's lifetime fuel economy is now 77mpg over 86k miles. With a full tank and a full charge it has 650 miles of range, and if I charge it nightly I typically get around 1000 miles between fuel stops during warm months. I can get 20 miles of range from any 120 or 240v outlet or I can fill up at any fueling station in North America and be back on the road in a couple of minutes. It's needed nothing but oil changes every 15-17k miles and a fresh set of tires around the 75k mile mark. There is no EV on the market (new or used) that has the right combination of price, capability and utility to motivate me to ditch my current vehicle .

If Ioniq 5's were selling for $35k or less I'd likely have one for the hatchback utility. If somebody came out with something like an EV Maverick with 300-350 miles of range and a starting price that was $45k or less without rebates I'd sign up tomorrow. But those options don't exist, so I'll keep driving my PHEV that probably has another 200k of life remaining. Maybe someday my needs will change, or something more appealing will come along to tempt me, but I'm content with what I've got for now.

But I'm not the one that has spent months arguing with everybody and telling them that an EV would work for them, and that they're just being closed minded. It's fine to correct bad info with good info if somebody misunderstands something about EVs. It's not ok to spread bad info about EVs, and get preachy about them if you're not willing to back any of that talk up with your own actions.

Well, here's some websites about BYD (and others) battery fires in China.

https://batteriesnews.com/7-battery-electric-cars-day-catch-fire-china-most-involved-brands/

That link is just for the 1st qtr of 2022

This has a little more info

https://www.wapcar.my/news/in-china-640-evs-caught-fire-in-the-first-quarter-of-2022-up-32-percent-45371

The problem with getting info out of China is, the media there is definitely state run, so a flagship company of the government, like BYD, which looks for backing from many Western sources, squashes stories to make sure that money keeps rolling in.  Which is covered, I believe, in the 2nd video.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

Indy - Guy said:

I passed a Mach-E Mustang tonight.

 

Remind me what the hive thinks about them compared to others in the market today.

I have a coworker that owns one and loves it.  He sometimes travels across parts of 3 states which requires a bit of planning and extended brakes but it works.  As infrastructure to support EVs improves, so will their appeal.  

I was at a stop light and it went through the intersection in front of me.  Orange in color and for the profile vantage, it looks half way decent.

I've basically ignored everything about them until now.

SV reX said:

frenchyd said:

   I think the less said the better.  

The irony dripping from that comment is one of the funniest things I've ever read!

Frenchy seems to think my used minivan can be replaced with a Model X - which new costs ~$100K, so the real world is a place he only ponders from time to time... from a far distance.  I don't know who can afford $100K vehicles they will fill with muddy crap, but I know for sure it ain't me.  Hell... my house is barely worth more than $100K... 

Never mind the fact a Model X will absolutely NOT fulfill the utility requirements my minivan can.

Right now, the closest van that meets my needs is an E-Transit, but unfortunately while the 126 mile range is adequate for the intended use (local deliveries and commercial use) it will not meet weekend trip needs.  And it starts at about $52K for a pretty basic vehicle.

After watching Doug's latest video on the Kia EV GT, I am somewhat hoping Kia/Hyundai has an EV minivan in the development pipeline. 

SV reX said:

frenchyd said:

   I think the less said the better.  

The irony dripping from that comment is one of the funniest things I've ever read!

You have to look for and recognize humor when you find it because it eases the pain of this thread.  Good job!

frenchyd said:

      With me?  I don't worry that the utility company won't have enough money.  I worry about me.  Now I don't have oil on my property. Nor coal but the wind blows and the sun shines.  That will do.   

Yet you don't have any solar or wind at your house. At all. So they are just as useful as the lack of oil, gas or coal. Say it with me: Hyp-o-crite

Post 2250, if you do the math, you know what that means........