I think I might have to buy a new car.

The planets aren't aligned for me right now, and I haven't driven one yet, but at some point I see an Abarth 124 or the RF in my future.

In the meantime, I'm on the lookout for a BRG NA or NB.

Keith Tanner wrote: And I don't think I've ever driven a car that needs so little modification in stock form.

That's some high praise, indeed!

Brett_Murphy wrote: When is forced induction coming around for these? That might make getting an automatic a bit less painful.

Edelbrock has a 50-state blower coming out Real Soon Now and there are a few turbo kits under development right now.

So, to sum up the requests, the RF should have had a fully retractable fixed top with a removable roof panel and a hatch for less money than a randomly chosen amount

Keith Tanner wrote:

Brett_Murphy wrote: When is forced induction coming around for these? That might make getting an automatic a bit less painful.

Edelbrock has a 50-state blower coming out Real Soon Now and there are a few turbo kits under development right now. So, to sum up the requests, the RF should have had a fully retractable fixed top with a removable roof panel and a hatch for less money than a randomly chosen amount

Don't forget the magic spinning triangles! :)

I've owned an NA and a NB, only test driven an NC and most recently an ND GT. Its a great drivers car, totally out of its element here in Alaska but it sure was nice to spend a sunny afternoon away from work with the top down, even with the salesman in the car. It's definitely a Miata and a return to the pure roadster. Just with Bluetooth and cruise control. (Are they really penalties if they don't add weight?)

Am I the only one who sees this:

It sounds like a great, well-balanced car. I can only hope they sell relatively well and find their way onto the second-hand market in the future, as I'm not currently in the market but would love to be down the road.

Man, the RF is really pretty. Love the lines. I don't love that it's more expensive and simultaneously heavier than the convertible. If I'm buying an ND then I'm going to want to take it autocrossing, so count me in the camp that wishes they had just made it a lighter-weight fixed top.

CobraSpdRH wrote: Am I the only one who sees this: It sounds like a great, well-balanced car. I can only hope they sell relatively well and find their way onto the second-hand market in the future, as I'm not currently in the market but would love to be down the road.

It has a targa roof and some headlights and it's red. That's about where the resemblance ends. Hopefully it'll outsell the Solstice coupe!

I love the ND, wish I could afford one. I love convertibles, but having a targa roof would be 100% cool with me.

Keith, I've noticed the NC has never been a favorite for you. I know you said you weren't fond of the suspension on the car, but what else about it kept you away from them?

The suspension is fixable pretty easily. Weight is more of a challenge.

My biggest complaint about the NC is personality. The shortest way to sum it up is that an NA/NB feels faster than it is, that's a big part of why they're so much fun to drive. The NC is faster than it feels. Effective, but not as engaging.

The first time I went to Hallett with our supercharged NC I was running alongside a coworker in a turbo NB. We both "knew" the NB was faster - but the NC was keeping up, despite the fact that it was on street tires vs the R comps on the older car. It quite surprised us both. If I was competing on a track, the NC would probably be a better base than the NA/NB for this reason.

The engine doesn't have any character in stock form and the steering is a bit numb. The seats also don't fit me as well, but that's a personal thing.

You can fix a lot of this. The best time I ever had with a four cylinder NC on the track was our supercharged car on indifferent tires. You had to manage the grip on turn-in and then carefully meter out the power on the way out. Huge fun. Usually, it's too easy to generate grip so you end up with a car that just sticks and does nothing else. We've tried a centrifugal SC that I thought would have real potential on track, but in reality it was a disappointment - although a non-FM driver who used to own an NC really liked it.

Our V8 NC is pretty darn good. Up until last summer, it was the best GT in the stable, able to leap tall continents in a single bound. Decent on track, too, with a good combo of fat tired grip and torque although it always felt big. But then we built the ND V8, and it's as good as a GT and far more fun on track.

It's worth noting that the NC is the only Miata that wasn't a purpose-built Miata, which is actually pretty astounding for a company the size of Mazda. I don't know if that was a factor, but it did bloat the car up a bit.

Keith Tanner wrote: So, to sum up the requests, the RF should have had a fully retractable fixed top with a removable roof panel and a hatch for less money than a randomly chosen amount

And been available as a diesel wagon, natch.

It's good to hear someone with your experience say that. The car is no good on paper, too expensive with too few HP. But so many people I trust and respect for their driving impressions rave about this car. That says something about the inherent goodness of the ND chassis.

Do it! It's a gorgeous car, I think it will hold up over time (eg. 23 years).

Do you know exactly what they changed with the RF's suspension?

I'll get a chance for measurements after the Rolex 24 this weekend, but shock calibration was definitely on the list.

So what I've learned here is: If I want to keep my need for rear seats, and by extension a passenger seat, apparently I must not get behind the wheel of an ND in the next few years. Well, not unless they drop the supposedly-upcoming HCCI engine in at the mid-cycle refresh. Then it might become worth the risk to pick one up...Purely as an eco-commuter car, of course.

Keith Tanner wrote: I'll get a chance for measurements after the Rolex 24 this weekend, but shock calibration was definitely on the list.

I will be at the Rolex this weekend, will you be bringing any of your cars with you??

Last weekend I was trying to find that exact article on the turbo smurf as a guide for my build.

Keith, if you just have to get a RF (which I think you MUSt do) I'll be in Grand Junction the next weekend with a wad of cash to take the smurf off your hands.

Feedyurhed wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: I'll get a chance for measurements after the Rolex 24 this weekend, but shock calibration was definitely on the list.

I will be at the Rolex this weekend, will you be bringing any of your cars with you??

The V8 ND, a customer V8 NB and a turbo Exocet.

And mister eggs, I may hold you to that

My wife and I keep eyeballing the RF and the 124 as possible replacements for her Maz6 down the road. I personally prefer the 124's styling and soundtrack, but the RF roof might make it a winner.

Keith Tanner wrote: The suspension is fixable pretty easily. Weight is more of a challenge. My biggest complaint about the NC is personality. The shortest way to sum it up is that an NA/NB feels faster than it is, that's a big part of why they're so much fun to drive. The NC is faster than it feels. Effective, but not as engaging. The engine doesn't have any character in stock form and the steering is a bit numb. The seats also don't fit me as well, but that's a personal thing. It's worth noting that the NC is the only Miata that wasn't a purpose-built Miata, which is actually pretty astounding for a company the size of Mazda. I don't know if that was a factor, but it did bloat the car up a bit.

I didn't know the NC wasn't a purpose-built Miata. So what was it?

I agree the NC personality is far different than the NA. I know the NC isn't a true "GT" car, but its' personality is more relaxed than the NA, IMO. Also totally agree the NC is probably faster than it feels...as I've said before my big complaint about the NC is lack of power. But in reality it's probably quicker than I feel in the seat of my pants. I despise those NC seats, they're torture on my lumbar area.

I just bought my second ever NC, waiting for the shipping company to deliver it. It's a 100% dead ringer for the other NC I've owned...'06 graphite grey GT 6spd. It will see no track or autox duty, and will spend most of it's time on the highway at 80mph...or crawling through rush hour. Only thing I'm going to do at the moment is add an Onyx XM radio.

Klayfish wrote: I didn't know the NC wasn't a purpose-built Miata. So what was it?

Shared platform with the RX8?

Matt B wrote:

Klayfish wrote: I didn't know the NC wasn't a purpose-built Miata. So what was it?

Shared platform with the RX8?

Correct.

Yeah, it's an RX8 with the top sawn off. Which means it was a three year old platform when the car was introduced, and it had some parts spec'd out for heavier cars like the five bolt wheels. But it may have been the only way we got to keep the Miata, and for that I love it.

I've said this before, but the ND is the first Miata that was a modern car at the time it was introduced. The NA had an engine that was designed in the late 70's, and it stuck around until the NC showed up. It's been an interesting jump from my point of view. Someone asked me where "the ECU" was on an ND, and I laughed. It has a constellation of computers.

The reason people complain about the lack of power in the NC is because it's a deceptively quick chassis with an engine with a very smooth powerband. It's not like the 1.6 with the crazy fun camshaft, it's more useable. But more subtle because of it.

Keith Tanner wrote: Yeah, it's an RX8 with the top sawn off. Which means it was a three year old platform when the car was introduced, and it had some parts spec'd out for heavier cars like the five bolt wheels. But it may have been the only way we got to keep the Miata, and for that I love it. I've said this before, but the ND is the first Miata that was a modern car at the time it was introduced. The NA had an engine that was designed in the late 70's, and it stuck around until the NC showed up. It's been an interesting jump from my point of view. Someone asked me where "the ECU" was on an ND, and I laughed. It has a constellation of computers. The reason people complain about the lack of power in the NC is because it's a deceptively quick chassis with an engine with a very smooth powerband. It's not like the 1.6 with the crazy fun camshaft, it's more useable. But more subtle because of it.

That explains why RX8 sway bays were/are such a popular upgrade to the NC Miatas.

Feedyurhed wrote: That explains why RX8 sway bays were/are such a popular upgrade to the NC Miatas.

And brakes, though I think that did less.