I want options. I don't want packages.

I am strongly considering buying a brand new car to replace my 310k mile XJ. The anxiety of each 3000 mile crosscountry roadtrip is building as things keep wearing out and failing at inopportune times. Thinking I might have one more winter with it and something new for next winter. Why is it so hard to offer options by themselves?!

I am strongly considering a Bronco. I want a Base model 4 door 7 speed. The Base 4 door only comes with the 10 speed.

So now I'm thinking about the 2 door and learning how to pack better. The Base 2 door can't have a locking rear diff unless you get the Sasquatch Package for $5000 which brings a bunch of other stuff I wouldn't want.

So then I'm looking at the Big Bend. You can get a 4 door with the 7 speed and standard locking diff. Now I foolishly look at other options and think that heated seats and a 110V plug would be nice. Guess what? Not available with manual transmission.

If I'm custom ordering a car, why can't I have a few options that don't affect one another. I'm sure the heated seats don't interfere with the manual transmission in any way. My mom's last Subaru(in 2004)  had a similar issue and she ended up with a weird combination of options just to get a manual transmission and heated seats. Maybe I should go back to looking at the Jeep JL Unlimited...

I'm sure I've already had it explained to me, probably here on GRM. But I do have trouble with the idea that given all the just-in-time stuff there's no way to have a per-vehicle build sheet. Some stuff won't be available with other stuff, and sometimes they'll just be getting vehicles on lots as fast as they can and special orders would be way off in the future.

OTOH, I feel like we got to do quite a bit of individual specification on our Mini. I think there were packages, but there was a fair bit of opportunity to twiddle. A custom order pretty much isn't going to get a discount, so there's that bonus for dealer/mfr.

As far as all the unrelated prerequisites and requirements, I'm pretty sure that's all a convoluted upsell, which makes it all the more frustrating. The heated seats and manual transmission thing seems dumb. I'm sure sometimes there are unexpected practical considerations, but most of the time it just seems to be a modest upgrade you want that's bait on a boatload you don't want or want to pay for. As you note.

Seems like selling folks exactly what they want should be a win for everybody. Offer options that retail with a margin, and let people buy them. There's something just ugly about this calculated matrix of "we make the most money if we leverage about $3k worth of random stuff onto every $700 option someone wants." Yes the mfr should make money. It's that feeling that you have to pay for stuff you really don't want, and they know they're getting as many people as possible to buy things they're rather not. As if every restaurant decided you had to buy a $3 side of fried crickets with any meal, and since all the restaurants decided to do this, "consumer choice" consists of "buy lunch or don't." So you kinda get what you want, but you pay too much and have a pile of fried crickets on the side of your plate while you eat.

At Porsche you can pretty much build exactly the car you want, in the finishes you want, with the options you want.

And everybody bitches endlessly about $3,000 paint and... and... and...

Sounds like you want a porsche. I don't know about the SUVs but on the cars almost everything is a la carte. But you get to pay for that luxury.

Duke said:

At Porsche you can pretty much build exactly the car you want, in the finishes you want, with the options you want.

And everybody bitches endlessly about $3,000 paint and... and... and...

Turns out that it's expensive to engineer and build an option combo that five total people are going to order, who'd have guessed?

Well...not the PTS stuff, that's a total scam.

You're about 50 years too late if you want all the options on a sheet you can check off. 

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Bring back individual RPO codes dammit! I want the 454 and the four wheel drums and the powerglide and the towing springs.

Jesse Ransom said:

I'm sure I've already had it explained to me, probably here on GRM. But I do have trouble with the idea that given all the just-in-time stuff there's no way to have a per-vehicle build sheet. Some stuff won't be available with other stuff, and sometimes they'll just be getting vehicles on lots as fast as they can and special orders would be way off in the future.

The ordering system is set up for dealers because very few people are willing to wait months for their new car (vast majority are bought out of dealer inventory).  Dealers are going to order packages anyway, so the manufacturer just streamlines the whole thing, it's cheaper and easier.  The few people who do want to custom order are left with using the same system because there aren't enough of them to justify a different system.

If you're buying a Honda there are generally zero options.  4 or 5 trim levels and then you can pick your favorite colour out of the 6 or 7 different types of silver/gray they offer.

As for the wacky option combinations that don't make sense together, they're often driven by price points.

It was a lot easier to build individual  options when the options didn't talk to each other. 

Now the seats talk to the SRS, the ecu talks to the dash, the wipers talk to the headlights, the trans talks to the radio, and so on...

If you want to pay $65000 for a new base Bronco, and 100,000 of your friends were willing to over pay too, then you could order individual items.

Otherwise, packaging reduces complexity of the build, aids in a little more manufacturer profit (they get discounts for ordering more of each item), and gets it built faster.

My least favourite option package was on the B15 Ser Sentra.  The Brembo brake package included a sunroof, a sub woofer, and a couple of other things that made the Brembos have to work harder, but  nothing else that added performance.

https://davisautosports.com/

These guys can hook you up for less than the cost of a Bronco.

I don't like option packages either, but if the package has about half of what I want, I'm ok with that. What I greatly dislike is there is a package I'll go for but in order to get it, I have to have yet another package added that I don't want at all.

I can understand with enthusiast vehicles being able to custom order but the vast majority of people are buying a toaster  with tires. They just want an easy appliance. The manufacturers have to cater to the masses and maximize efficiency. 

If you want a new vehicle in the next 2 years and not pay a market adjustment add-on, you'll probably have to skip the new Bronco. 

Duke said:

At Porsche you can pretty much build exactly the car you want, in the finishes you want, with the options you want.

And everybody bitches endlessly about $3,000 paint and... and... and...

 

This.

Pick-a-burger optioning is why Porsches can easily run over double their base price.  And a lot of why it is expensive is that they DON'T make, say, a single wiring harness for every possible option, or divvy it up into subharnesses that can accomodate everything in a plug and play scenario.  You want mood lighting in your cappuchino machine?  You get a specific wiring harness made just for your car...

Option packages are a lot of why modern cars are so cheap for what you get. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Duke said:

At Porsche you can pretty much build exactly the car you want, in the finishes you want, with the options you want.

And everybody bitches endlessly about $3,000 paint and... and... and...

 

This.

 

Pick-a-burger optioning is why Porsches can easily run over double their base price.  And a lot of why it is expensive is that they DON'T make, say, a single wiring harness for every possible option, or divvy it up into subharnesses that can accomodate everything in a plug and play scenario.  You want mood lighting in your cappuchino machine?  You get a specific wiring harness made just for your car...

 

Option packages are a lot of why modern cars are so cheap for what you get. 

Separate wiring harnesses seem stupid. Even back to E30s, if you purchased one that didn't have heated seats, the harness was still there. You just plug in the buttons and put the heating pads in the seat, and bam, you have heated seats in a car not originally equipped with them. 

untchabl said:

If you want a new vehicle in the next 2 years and not pay a market adjustment add-on, you'll probably have to skip the new Bronco. 

A friend of mine sent his allocation to his local dealer, where his family has bought a Raptor, GT350R, and a Flex.   The one his father sent his new GT to (yeah, that one) for purchase.   They told him he could have his $64,000 Bronco for $104,000.  The dealer owner is a NEIGHBOR of his parents!

So, yeah, what untchabl said.

From a dealer standpoint, packages are easier.  It's a real pain sometimes to try to locate a car with the only change being a different audio system or headlight package.  Every individual variable makes the process harder by a large factor.  If I remember correctly, in the 60's GM figured out they had 37 different dashboard combinations for the Nova.  It got out of hand.

Another problem with that idea, harnesses don't just have spare plugs any more. They are built for the package. So if the package comes with power seats but not heated seats and a higher end package does have heated seats there is not wiring on the lower package for heated seats.

untchabl said:

If you want a new vehicle in the next 2 years and not pay a market adjustment add-on, you'll probably have to skip the new Bronco. 

The Bronco forums have a lot of chatter about that. Apparently some dealers are honoring MSRP and people are flying halfway across the country to use them. But yeah, really sucks.

The other thing with individual options is it's really nice when ordering a new car but absolutely awful when shopping for used cars. Go look at a porsche option list, identify what options you want, and then go try to find a used car with those options.....good luck.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Duke said:

At Porsche you can pretty much build exactly the car you want, in the finishes you want, with the options you want.

And everybody bitches endlessly about $3,000 paint and... and... and...

 

This.

 

Pick-a-burger optioning is why Porsches can easily run over double their base price.  And a lot of why it is expensive is that they DON'T make, say, a single wiring harness for every possible option, or divvy it up into subharnesses that can accomodate everything in a plug and play scenario.  You want mood lighting in your cappuchino machine?  You get a specific wiring harness made just for your car...

 

Option packages are a lot of why modern cars are so cheap for what you get. 

Its even deeper than that...  Software versions on OEM vehicles take a mountain of validation testing and cost. The fewer number of versions they can get away with, the better. 

Yep. I was used to the "one wiring harness for all the cars" you got back in the day and was kind of shocked when I realized that putting power seats in my more modern car that came with manual seats would involve much more than just bolting them in and plugging them into the harness.

My e36 is lovely like that. Plenty of wires and connectors for not-installed options left under the carpet and behind panels. Thanks BMW!