Pete. (l33t FS) said:
z31maniac said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
rustomatic said:
A $36,000.00 Corolla? Seriously?
A new ZL1 Camaro is $70-80k. Is it not unreasonable for a Corolla to cost half of what a Camaro costs?
Alternatively, MSRP on a 2004 STi was $32k, which is about $50k in 2022 dollars. And that got you a blanking plate instead of a radio.
Back then people were incredulous over spending That Kind of money on a Subaru. The market tended to think it was acceptable 
A Camaro 1SS 1LE is $46k. And I have a feeling it would still stomp a GR Corrola, no need for the ZL1.
But, that is not the top model, which skews things. A mid level Corolla is about $25k, so still about half.
For $46k you get a large, heavy car that only has two wheel drive, and sounds like a Silverado. I'll take the Corolla.
Really, would rather have the Yaris.
The ZL1 would sound pretty similar considering it's the same engine with a SC.
I was just mostly going for price/performance ratio.
I just want the motor to swap into my Spitfire ...
Noddaz
PowerDork
9/10/22 8:35 p.m.
*sigh*
My Jetta is rated at 110 hp for the entire 2.0 engine.
And the GR has 100 hp per cylinder. *sigh*
te72
HalfDork
9/10/22 11:47 p.m.
Noddaz said:
*sigh*
My Jetta is rated at 110 hp for the entire 2.0 engine.
And the GR has 100 hp per cylinder. *sigh*
Toyotas of old were fun, but shall we say... frugal. My 79 Celica had all of not enough hp out of its 20R engine, 2.2L of displacement. The 1980 Corolla might have had even less power out of its 3TC. Fun cars though!
As for the ZL1 sounding like a Silverado, I have to disagree there. I have an 09 GMC equivalent of the Silverado (literally can't think of the GMC truck's name, and I own one, can you tell I'm a truck guy?), and it sounds nothing at all like a friend's autocross ZL1 1LE.
When I hit the gas, it gets kinda loud. When he hits the gas, it gets really loud, goes somewhere fast, and has a pleasing tone to it.
...but it was far more expensive than a GR Corolla. =P
I'd also have preferred the Yaris, but crash testing regulations and cost most likely prevented that.
That motorcycle transmission attached to the rear diff is kind of interesting. Does one really need this much tech in a 300 horsepower car?
Case in point: In 2008, there was a bit of obsession over the new VW R32. On paper, short of its portly curb weight, it seemed awesome: six cylinders and AWD in a refined package without Audi cost. What could be wrong with a next-level GTI? Pretty much all of the testing resulted in a preference for the GTI, which saved many pennies. The pennies were frequently not the main consideration, though. The complete absence of anything special in the driving experience (vs. the GTI) was the main takeaway.
One can really over-cook a 300-ish horsepower vehicle in terms of equipment. Saving a busload of weight might add some real entertainment. That money for a Corolla, well, enjoy the payments . . .
calteg
SuperDork
9/11/22 11:09 a.m.
rustomatic said:
That motorcycle transmission attached to the rear diff is kind of interesting. Does one really need this much tech in a 300 horsepower car?
Case in point: In 2008, there was a bit of obsession over the new VW R32. On paper, short of its portly curb weight, it seemed awesome: six cylinders and AWD in a refined package without Audi cost. What could be wrong with a next-level GTI? Pretty much all of the testing resulted in a preference for the GTI, which saved many pennies. The pennies were frequently not the main consideration, though. The complete absence of anything special in the driving experience (vs. the GTI) was the main takeaway.
One can really over-cook a 300-ish horsepower vehicle in terms of equipment. Saving a busload of weight might add some real entertainment. That money for a Corolla, well, enjoy the payments . . .
See also, 3000GT VR-4
reply to Noddaz:
If it makes you feel any better, my Prius C had a rampaging 99hp when new. Now the hybrid battery is weak and it has 175k on the clock, my guess it that's closer to 80hp. And somehow I still manage to pass 15% of other drivers.
rustomatic said:
That motorcycle transmission attached to the rear diff is kind of interesting. Does one really need this much tech in a 300 horsepower car?
Chevy adopted drive by wire for the C5 because they felt they could not adequately handle the rampaging power (heh) of the LS1 with analog throttle.
"300hp" is a vague statement. Skyline GT-Rs had a ridiculous amount of tech for 276hp. WRCars were limited to about 300hp and they could run 11 second quarter miles... on gravel. It is all about how the power is delivered. A high revving small naturally aspirated 300hp is a lot different from a turbo engine that can make 400 ft-lb at low RPM, nonlinearly with throttle request. I had one car with a manual boost controller that would build full boost at quarter throttle.
That money for a Corolla, well, enjoy the payments . . .
This is why I bring up the $80k Camaro. It's just a hairdressers car, who would pay $80k for that?
OTOH, AE86s in good condition are worth serious money... so obviously people are willing to spend a lot of money on "a Corolla" that has only 115hp and no warranty.
The Skyline 276 hp.... that had more to do with Japanese law than actual power output. There is a long list of 276 hp Japanese cars.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
I am sure they made an actual 276hp.
20B Cosmos also made 276hp, but they tapered the boost from 10psi at the low end to 4psi at the top to keep under the limit. The funny thing is they make just as much power if you scrape the turbos off and run N/A, they just have less low end.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
A lot of special edition Mitsu and Subarus were also "276 hp." Even if they did limit them to 276 to comply with the law, a lot of these engines were easily modified to exceed that number.
calteg
SuperDork
9/12/22 9:38 a.m.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
It was less of a law and more of a gentlemen's agreement between manufacturers at the time. Many factory cars that were rated at 276 exceeded it, even bone stock
The Skyline was a GT car. Ain't no Corolla ever gonna be a GT car.
rustomatic said:
The Skyline was a GT car. Ain't no Corolla ever gonna be a GT car.
So in theory it didn't need as much tech because it is bigger and heavier?
I found out the purpose of the rear seat delete and bar in the Morizo edition
Tune in tomorrow morning for track impressions. (I've said too much.)
te72
HalfDork
9/14/22 12:39 a.m.
I assumed the bar was for attaching shoulder harnesses to it, but it would seem I'm mistaken. That's pretty clever!
In reply to te72 :
The angle seems too low to mount shoulder harnesses to, though I'm sure you could. Plenty of people run harnesses to the rear seat belt mounts using harnesses such as the Rallye 4 and have had no issues.
They need the 4WD for the rally cars, and need to build and sell them that way for homologation.
Besides, limiting 300 HP to FWD literally throws away half of the traction.
Matters not how much power you have if it cannot get it to the ground.
Despite your financial misgivings, I doubt that they will have any trouble selling out the whole production run,
no matter how much the $tealerships gouge the buyers.
clshore said:
They need the 4WD for the rally cars, and need to build and sell them that way for homologation.
Besides, limiting 300 HP to FWD literally throws away half of the traction.
Matters not how much power you have if it cannot get it to the ground.
Despite your financial misgivings, I doubt that they will have any trouble selling out the whole production run,
no matter how much the $tealerships gouge the buyers.
WRC has no road car homologation. If they did, everything on the Corolla or Yaris would be excluded by the rules: wrong engine, wrong transmission, wrong suspension, wrong differential, it isn't a hybrid, etc.
I do not see how the rear diff is "fancy". Looks like just a regular Haldex type unit.
Canadian pricing was announced, $45,490 for the Core, but it comes with all 3 optional packages (Sport, Cold Weather, Technology) as standard. Circuit is $53,990 and Morizo is $59,990. The salesman I was talking with didn't know how many Circuits we're getting, but said Canada only gets 10 Morizo's and they're taking written submissions from people wanting those to try and make sure they'll actually get used.
Given the large gap in pricing, I asked them to get me a Core (I reserved a spot long ago) and I'll be selling or trading in my 2015 WRX when it arrives. I might not have chosen the technology pack, but I don't mind that it's included. I like that the other two options are standard, so I don't have to worry about not being able to get them, as I definitely want those. I'm quite thankful that we don't suffer from the same dealer shenanigans as in the US with markups and such (BC, Canada).
In reply to RX8driver :
Good deal, I hope that you like it.
And even if you don't, should be no problem finding buyers for it.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
OK, did you read the release article?
Says they need to build and sell enough to meet enough to meet somebodies' homologation.
clshore said:
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
OK, did you read the release article?
Says they need to build and sell enough to meet enough to meet somebodies' homologation.
Not sure whose it is, then. WRC require a 1.6l four cylinder and the automakers are allowed to make a one off engine specifically for WRC if they do not have a suitable production engine. So it is not the engine.
It is not the all wheel drive, either, as automakers have not needed to base a car on an all wheel drive platform since 1998.
IIRC the only real production requirements are that it has to be based on a series production vehicle of certain dimensions. When those dimensions changed is when Ford went from the Focus to the Fiesta, for example. (Note that the Focus WRC never existed at the same time as the all wheel drive RS road car) They can (must) convert from whatever suspension it has to struts at all four corners, they can (must) use a spec gearbox, etc.
