If it's so easy to get on track, why is it so hard to get a car?

In reply to bobzilla :

Yeah - some bigger cars might struggle to downsize wheels/tires @ 215 - though maybe I'm thinking "too big" for the cars you guys are thinking of. 

accordionfolder said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Yeah - some bigger cars might struggle to downsize wheels/tires @ 215 - though maybe I'm thinking "too big" for the cars you guys are thinking of. 

there's been talk of a 4.1 Cadillacs. The thing to remember at 25:1 that's technically a slow car. A heavier car with more power would walk those low power cars down every straight, so making them give it up in the corners helps even it out. WE've got a 4cyl accord joining the ranks this year. 

The c spec cars look like they could be even cheaper than the b spec cars. 

accordionfolder said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Yeah - some bigger cars might struggle to downsize wheels/tires @ 215 - though maybe I'm thinking "too big" for the cars you guys are thinking of. 

It would be amusing to try to put down 400+ hp through a pair of 215.

I saw a Suzuki Firenza for $2500 the other day. Those things are rated at 128 HP and about 2700 LB. Only had 77,000 miles and looked pretty rust free by Michigan standards. It would be slow enough I think, and there wouldn't likely be another one show up!

Edit: I also saw a 2013 Kia Rio SX for sale in Ossian, Indiana if someone was serious about trying Sundae Cup. Just copy Bobzilla's build and go have fun.

theruleslawyer said:

accordionfolder said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Yeah - some bigger cars might struggle to downsize wheels/tires @ 215 - though maybe I'm thinking "too big" for the cars you guys are thinking of. 

It would be amusing to try to put down 400+ hp through a pair of 215.

Mercedes put 600hp through 185s in the 1930s.

theruleslawyer said:

accordionfolder said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Yeah - some bigger cars might struggle to downsize wheels/tires @ 215 - though maybe I'm thinking "too big" for the cars you guys are thinking of. 

It would be amusing to try to put down 400+ hp through a pair of 215.

My MG has about that power level and runs 195s. My track Miata has about 20% more than that and runs 225s. Just don't shock them loose and you'll be amazed as how they can hook up. 

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

I saw a Suzuki Firenza for $2500 the other day. Those things are rated at 128 HP and about 2700 LB. Only had 77,000 miles and looked pretty rust free by Michigan standards. It would be slow enough I think, and there wouldn't likely be another one show up!

Edit: I also saw a 2013 Kia Rio SX for sale in Ossian, Indiana if someone was serious about trying Sundae Cup. Just copy Bobzilla's build and go have fun.

 

Dude, give me your checkbook and I'll put it together for you. 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/280195001584770/?ref=category_feed&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A2848e5f8-d2db-48b6-83c3-1a74c09e861b

My approach was to simplify by owning two cars, and here's why:

I want to make sure I don’t have to rely on my dual-duty car after a track day for work, family errands, or personal daily driving. This way, I can push hard on the track without worrying about whether the car will be ready for the next day.

I’m aiming for a reliable daily driver (pre-owned) and a capable 'dual duty' car for both street and track use, like the FRS/BRZ platform or Miatas.

The FRS/BRZ twins offer solid performance with low running costs on track, no overheating issues, and they’ve never needed a teardown. While they might not set the fastest lap times, I can comfortably drive them for an hour straight during events like Chin Track Days.

As for the daily driver, there are plenty of pre own great options around the $25K range.

Great chassis choices for solid, reliable, and fun track cars have shrunk in the last few years, to be sure. We keep pushing folks into two main cars: New 2nd gen 86 and used S550 generation Mustangs.



These seem pretty different to some folks, but a remarkable number of our customers do cross-shop these two. They are similar in many ways, giving you many of the same thrills but at price points and consumable budgets.



Both cars are Rear Wheel Drive and come with pretty decent handling out of the box, which only improves with proper dampers and spring rates. Both have great brakes (with the optional 15" 6 piston Brembos on the Mustangs) and ABS systems, excellent EPAS (electric steering), lots of additional wheel and tire room (we regularly use 11" wide wheels on the S550 and 10" wide wheels on the 86), and two of the stiffest platforms built in the last 30 years. Both have roomy interiors with great sightlines and ergonomics, too.

The recent GRM S550 Mustang buyers guide that we were quoted on has a lot of tips on how to get one of these, and the 1st and 2nd gen 86 cars are also well covered by GRM. These can both do "double duty" as a street car, as long as nobody needs to sit in the back seats that have "legs".

Racing costs money, but these two options give you a lot of track smiles for the money. The S550 with a 450+ hp Coyote V8 is a powerhouse and with the right mods can give a 911 GT3 a run for its money. The 86 with some tire and spring upgrades can outrun most other cars under $50K, too.

So we have choices, just not a lot of them, and financing is still "the suck" for new and esp used cars. Maybe we can all buy a new car with our DOGE rebate checks!

What we need is a car that is somewhat practical as a daily driver, a sedan with a decent-sized trunk for example. Then give it decent power, something just under 300 perhaps. Then a sports suspension and good tires. OH wait, give it a magic suspension that gives a smooth ride around town, but can stiffen up for track use! Yeah, yeah, and a magic exhaust that is loud on the track but quiet in the neighborhood too. And a magic transmission that is faster than a manual, as easy to use as an automatic, and knows when you are on a track and shifts hard for you. Oh man, wouldn't that be great. While we are dreaming, this fantasy car would have OEM brakes that could handle track nights without fade,  but are not some expensive aftermarket option. And add cooling for the brakes and transmission and extra bracing and lots of other race-car tricks. You could get the guy who ran the BMW M division to make it, wouldn't that be awesome? And they you'd sell it for like $35K, with a 10 year warranty. Oh man, it's fun to dream. I wish a car like that existed. 

In reply to Fair :

I did cross-shop the 86 and recent Mustang (also a recent Camaro) and went with the 86. As a dual-duty car the costs aren't as different as you might expect though - the 86 uses less consumables, but despite being a lighter and less powerful car with a similar up-front cost, the insurance is a lot higher! My fault for assuming that there was a shred of logic to insurance pricing, it actually runs on pure statistics and is easily swayed by anomalies like many Toyobarus being hooned into walls making them appear to be an inherently dangerous car somehow. So as a dual-duty car, you need to use an 86 on track enough to make it cheaper than a Mustang or Camaro through consumables savings.

Another car I briefly considered along with those was a 944 S2, but I'd figured that having done the needy old car thing and not having such easy access to all the automotive specialty shops where I'd just moved, I should get something newer. Smacking the 86's nose into a pillar and doing the expensive new (modern) car parts thing showed that the 944 probably should've got a closer look.

fminicooper said:

The FRS/BRZ twins offer solid performance with low running costs on track, no overheating issues, and they’ve never needed a teardown. While they might not set the fastest lap times, I can comfortably drive them for an hour straight during events like Chin Track Days.

2.0L Toyobarus do have an overheating problem, they don't come with an oil cooler and although coolant temps are very stable, the oil will get frighteningly hot, and the factory-specified viscosity is especially thin, so an oil cooler and a viscosity increase is a good idea. They're also prone to oil starvation and cavitation, so a baffle plate + high flow pickup + 0.25qt~0.5qt overfill would be a good idea. Shimming the oil temp sensor out also seems to improve oil flow.

2.4L models come with an oil-to-water cooler that just barely mitigates the oil overheating but they're even more prone to oil starvation, baffle plates that completely solve the issue were just about to hit the market last time I checked a few months ago...

In reply to GameboyRMH :

My bad—I do have an oil cooler and plenty of bolt-on upgrades to make the platform shine.

My point is that with the right upgrades—an oil cooler being one of them—the platform can deliver countless miles on track at a highly competitive cost per mile.