Import "scene" been driving me crazy.

AverageH wrote: ... it still looks great and gets comments all the time....

That is why kids do what they do to car visually. You don't get comments on your supercharger, or engine swap. or 90% of real performance work, at a gas station, in town etc, because no-one sees it. Kids want comments. they want "turned heads" it isn't even about looking cool, or nice.. it is about grabbing attention, and you don't get random people looking for perfomrance mods, because they are hidden.

Look at all the super "riced out" tacky modded cars on ebay/craigslist/forums. what is the one common thing they say about thier cars, when trying to justify how it looks? "turns heads", and "gets comments all the time."

it is expensive to get comments on a cheap car, with no expensive work... heck, it is hard to get comments on a cheap car, WITH expensive work, if it still looks clean, and not all venty, and carbony, and wingy...

poopshovel wrote:

RealMiniDriver wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: I would love to see stanced out VW's. All there is by me are stacks, stacks and burnin' coal and truck nuts as far as the eye can see.

Rollin' around Brookfield, WI: I've only ever seen it parked, never driving.

Urelated(?) I was skateboarding when tiny ass berkeleying wheels became the "thing" for street. "Nice bearing covers!" we'd say. Sorry. Makes me think of that. Get off my lawn.

I had mostly given up skating by that time, but I remember the same weird trend. I remember thinking "how the hell do they turn or run over a matchstick with those teeny little things?" Of course, back when I was really into it, you had Kryptonic Red 70s with the wheelwells scalloped on your street board and Green 60s on your park board. Both on Tracker Wides, of course.

I went to the Cavalcade of Customs in Cincinnati a few weeks ago. 90% 50's hot rods and 60-70's muscle cars, 10% newer cars with mostly vinyl wraps, carbon fiber XYZ and dubs.

I'm sure if I rolled up in my 2006 Scion xB the muscle car crowd of 50-60 yr olds would call me a ricer without asking about my autocross or rallycross experience with the SCCA. Maybe it's a generation thing?

mazdeuce wrote: In defense of the stance kids, there is something to be said about being able to walk out of a store and see your car in the lot looking noticeably different from the rest and smile and think to yourself "my ride is so berkeleying cool".

Except then you go to a car meet with your friends, and it is identical to 50 others that are all aping the same "flavor of the month" styling trend.

I get it, people like different things; that's not the issue. The issues for me are A) danger and non-functionality; and B) "nonconformist" conformity.

Duke wrote: Of course, back when I was really into it, you had Kryptonic Red 70s with the wheelwells scalloped on your street board and Green 60s on your park board. Both on Tracker Wides, of course.

You have no idea how happy it makes me that I understand all those words.

lastsnare wrote: ... There aren't any rules as to who has the "correct" concept of what a car should look like...

There is - it's when safety is compromised in the quest for looks. If you're stopped at a light and get rear-ended by someone with -14 deg camber, unable to stop because his contact patch was 1/2" wide, that's okay?

Not in my book.

Curmudgeon wrote: Around here fart cannon JDM isn't real big, it's the ballers on twennyfo spinnaz yO. See a fair number of jacked up pickups, the funniest is the jacked up pickups on twennyfoz. There's some guy who I see in the mornings with a Focus that has some suspension work and a NASA sticker on the side glass, he did a semi ricer flyby on the Trooper one mornng. I guess that's because of the SCCA sticker on the back glass. Every warm spring day brings out a metric E36 M3 ton of old Brit *rust* over on my side of town.

FTFY

mazdeuce wrote: In defense of the stance kids, there is something to be said about being able to walk out of a store and see your car in the lot looking noticeably different from the rest and smile and think to yourself "my ride is so berkeleying cool". For as much fun as in have in my Mazda2, I've never thought that about my car.

Oh, its "cool" in a special ed kinda way....

kb58 wrote:

lastsnare wrote: ... There aren't any rules as to who has the "correct" concept of what a car should look like...

There is - it's when safety is compromised in the quest for looks. If you're stopped at a light and get rear-ended by someone with -14 deg camber, unable to stop because his contact patch was 1/2" wide, that's okay? Not in my book.

This is the typical/generic response against people who drive 'stanced' cars (very low, like the Jetta in the pics above).

I have yet to actually see this happen or hear a first-hand report of this happening to anyone. I don't think this is as frequent an occurrence as some make it out to be.

The only cars I have ever seen with -14 degrees of camber are photos on the internet. At least where I live, nobody has a car with that much camber. We have some low cars with just enough camber to keep the tires from hitting the fenders, but that is about it. Why don't they use narrower tires or wheels ? Because they didn't want to.

I also agree with the idea that it's hard to get people to notice a car is functionally built and clean. Why ? because nobody looks at a clean car that doesn't have something attention-getting about it. If I was out to get attention with my car, I would try to find ways to make it different from all the other cars on the road.

"Clean" seems to indicate that the owner either put a lot of money into their car (in which case we are celebrating how much money the owner has), or they were creative they were about making it stand out from the rest (which requires, well, creativity, and maybe some money). There is nothing wrong with an expensive car build, but I do think that it's a bit elitist to say that an expensive build is more of an accomplishment than one where someone did something unusual without spending a lot of money. When you don't have money to spend, then you have to get creative. And there is nothing wrong with not being unusual either. Picking a style (whatever it may be) gives people a place to fit in and something to have in common with others. Lots of opinions, different approaches and different outcomes, with benefits and drawbacks for each.

ReverendDexter wrote:

Duke wrote: Of course, back when I was really into it, you had Kryptonic Red 70s with the wheelwells scalloped on your street board and Green 60s on your park board. Both on Tracker Wides, of course.

You have no idea how happy it makes me that I understand all those words.

If you were on a budget, Road Riders went on the street board. RR Henry Hesters if you were mostly a downhill kinda skater...

In reply to lastsnare:

I disagree about your definition of clean. clean is NOT having "look at me parts" and not having obvious flaws. Stock can be clean, and wild can be clean... but as you add doodads (stickers, lights, vents, scoops, etc...) the more it is "look at me" the less clean it is.

SCARRMRCC wrote: In reply to lastsnare: I disagree about your definition of clean. clean is NOT having "look at me parts" and not having obvious flaws. Stock can be clean, and wild can be clean... but as you add doodads (stickers, lights, vents, scoops, etc...) the more it is "look at me" the less clean it is.

Okay, that sounds like a reasonable definition. I will amend my statement then to simply say that some people like a 'clean' car, and some people don't.
Everybody wants their own niche to fit in with. Sometimes it's where their friends are, and sometimes it's to purposely disassociate themselves from some other trend (a reactionary response). If I was saturated by any particular trend for long enough, I would possibly start to hate it and find ways to reduce my exposure to it (like possibly moving to another part of town). Where I live, the average resident's age is probably 75. So we have a lot of drivers of that demographic. It's a quiet neighborhood, and I am one of the few people in the area who doesn't drive a 1980's Buick, Oldsmobile or some type of minivan/people-carrier. If I lived someplace where there were lots of rich kids who were into cars, then I would very likely have developed some adverse feelings towards a specific demographic. So I will also agree with an above poster that it's probably a very regionally/locally variable phenomena. It also snows a fair bit where I live, so this likely limits certain car-demographic groups a bit as well.

lastsnare wrote:

kb58 wrote:

lastsnare wrote: ... There aren't any rules as to who has the "correct" concept of what a car should look like...

There is - it's when safety is compromised in the quest for looks. If you're stopped at a light and get rear-ended by someone with -14 deg camber, unable to stop because his contact patch was 1/2" wide, that's okay? Not in my book.

This is the typical/generic response against people who drive 'stanced' cars (very low, like the Jetta in the pics above)... The only cars I have ever seen with -14 degrees of camber are photos on the internet...

Good to read, otherwise I'd have thought that this guy was driving an unsafe car on a public street... And I was wrong about it being -14 deg camber... more like -23. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vxzD6Cd6w

kb58 wrote:

lastsnare wrote:

kb58 wrote:

lastsnare wrote: ... There aren't any rules as to who has the "correct" concept of what a car should look like...

There is - it's when safety is compromised in the quest for looks. If you're stopped at a light and get rear-ended by someone with -14 deg camber, unable to stop because his contact patch was 1/2" wide, that's okay? Not in my book.

This is the typical/generic response against people who drive 'stanced' cars (very low, like the Jetta in the pics above)... The only cars I have ever seen with -14 degrees of camber are photos on the internet...

Good to read, otherwise I'd have thought that this guy was driving an unsafe car on a public street... And I was wrong about it being -14 deg camber... more like -23. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vxzD6Cd6w

Now just to play devils advocate (I wouldn't drive a car like that myself, and haven't had the urge to even lower my cars more than a touch), I would be curious to see this tested and documented, under as controlled circumstances as possible, to see exactly how long any car (granted all cars will not be the same, road conditions will vary) would last with that configuration. (Since it didn't actually crash in the video). I would be curious to know how long before any type of failure (tire sidewall, wheel bearing...something else maybe ?)

It might actually be interesting to see how much camber different components could continuously endure.

If the science supports it, then it's hard to argue against. Intuition is one thing, but proof is effective at winning debates.

I just want this fad to go away......however, I'm sure the next fad will be more retarded.

This coming from someone who has a bmw that is lower than most hellaflush VW's......the exception being, it can actually take corners at speed.

kb58 wrote: Good to read, otherwise I'd have thought that this guy was driving an unsafe car on a public street... And I was wrong about it being -14 deg camber... more like -23. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vxzD6Cd6w

i see your -23 and raise -80ish http://youtu.be/LgIrDyUEBjY

It isn't easy knowing what you really, truly want....

sometimes you need to discover your own originality.....

For me... it came in a rwd Corolla that is built to MY desires... some simple... some powerful... some ornate... The one thing in common... they are ALL mine

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/2130/

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-threads-and-project-cars/1983-corolla-aka-surreptitious/52845/page1/

SCARRMRCC wrote:

kb58 wrote: Good to read, otherwise I'd have thought that this guy was driving an unsafe car on a public street... And I was wrong about it being -14 deg camber... more like -23. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vxzD6Cd6w

i see your -23 and raise -80ish http://youtu.be/LgIrDyUEBjY

You win, I'm out!

It;s not so much an import, but this death trap came into the shop a couple months ago. Dodge Magnum on 30s. The subframe was cut in the front, washer reservoir removed, spring spacers STACKED in the coils, and the spindle uprights were cut and re-welded. In the back there were MORE spring spacers, air shocks with about 200psi in them and the exhaust was cut about 2 feet short.

Customer:"My car vibrates when I drive it". No, you don't say?

I don't care what you do to your car or how it looks. If you like it, that's all that matters UNTIL it is unsafe for the road. When you put other drivers at risk because "it looks cool", then everyone should have a problem with it.

SCARRMRCC wrote:

kb58 wrote: Good to read, otherwise I'd have thought that this guy was driving an unsafe car on a public street... And I was wrong about it being -14 deg camber... more like -23. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vxzD6Cd6w

i see your -23 and raise -80ish http://youtu.be/LgIrDyUEBjY

Oh for one good Ohio pothole at speed. But only if I could point and snicker.

Yeah, it all comes down to what you want your car to do.

want to make it a rally car? want to be seen? want to be fast? want to be comfy? etc.

while some people may not match your ideas of what a car should do, they are not automatically wrong for not matching your ideals.. but there are those few that make them dangerous. because they didn't know what they were doing, and/or couldn't afford to do it right.

a really common thing I have seen on the "tuner" world. is really stupidly modified racing seats setups...for instance (I have seen this with my own 2 eyes):

a guy replaced the airbagged steering wheel, with a "racing wheel" he got from ebay (no name, but was red, and fake carbon fiber so he had to have it), then he replaced the stock seats with ebay "racing seats" (and you could tell the recliner hinges would give out with a stiff kick) and he got himself a set of 4 point harnesses.. and this is the kicker: he bolted the shoulder belts through the holes in the seats... then down to the back mounts of the front seat (on the floor), that made them end up in FRONT OF HIS SPINE when he slid the seat back to his normal driving position.

I did see someone at a national tour with the shoulder harnesses going through the seat (it was at least a Courbeau seat) and then just tied together behind the seat. He thought it was perfectly safe.

If we're talking about safety, I'm much more concerned about the ass hats driving around my hometown in 1987 F-150's on an eight inch lift than anything you guys are mentioning. Any of these trucks would easily roll over a CRX or a Miata.

A couple winters ago I got rear ended by one of these guys. Not really his fault, it was pretty slick out, could have happened to anyone. Here's the problem, his truck hit the tailgate of my 4x4 Toyota 4Runner about 2/3rds of the way up. That 4Runner is a tall-riding truck, if I was in a Miata that bumper would be the same height as the back of my head.

back when I was in HS and had a VW beetle.. one of my classmates had a 70s Ford Pickup that was jacked up to the point that the rear bumper was almost roof height to my beetle. I know this because I almost rear ended him going into school because I could not see his brakelights as we inched into the parking lot

ShadowSix wrote: If we're talking about safety, I'm much more concerned about the ass hats driving around my hometown in 1987 F-150's on an eight inch lift than anything you guys are mentioning. Any of these trucks would easily roll over a CRX or a Miata. A couple winters ago I got rear ended by one of these guys. Not really his fault, it was pretty slick out, could have happened to anyone. Here's the problem, his truck hit the tailgate of my 4x4 Toyota 4Runner about 2/3rds of the way up. That 4Runner is a tall-riding truck, if I was in a Miata that bumper would be the same height as the back of my head.

Yup! Huge complaint of mine. There are very few regulations for bumpers and bumper heights for SUV's and trucks. Safety for others doesn't matter.

-Hamid