In clouds of black diesel smoke, some controversy | When enthusiasts don’t play well with locals

Keith Tanner said:

The fact that it's trucks isn't really a factor, it could be Harleys or sportbikes or Civics or old-school hot rods - all of whom have had this problem at one time or another

I think the trucks are a factor, though, since their huge size makes them inherently more dangerous to other road users. This is fine if you need the vehicle's capability, respect its size/impact, and drive accordingly. But then you factor in that many of these modifications make them more dangerous (increased ride height/reduced forward visibility) or deliberately more obnoxious (rolling coal) ...I gotta agree with ShinnyGroove on this one, antagonism/provocation seems to be baked into this scene. 

frenchyd said:

Absolutely . To our eyes and standards it is.  But the population has more than doubled. Almost tripled since I was born.   
Life has less value nowdays.   Notoriety  seems to be of greater value than decency. Which is what is driving a lot of America's youth. 

Preparenthood. Or even preinvolvement with the fairer sex amplifies that base nature. 
    Finally. Less than 2% of. Americans have military experiance. Of that 2% only 5% are ever involved in combat. 
We boomers came from parents who's early life was deeply involved in military. Parents of even Uber Rich were drafted or volunteered. Sharing risks and life threatening experiences.  Then we were exposed to our own share of military risks with the draft. Some Uber rich parents lost their child.  So commonly shared values were still the norm. 
Unlike today. With its volunteer military where  those without a path to success and the middle  class.  
        Many Millenials trying to achieve success through education  have found instead of an upwards path the debt used to acquire that degree prevents them from achieving it.  The along come the Great Recession, the pandemic and they don't have a path upwards. 
 

 

This is the popular line of thought, and I think there's a lot of truth to it.  The problem is that it would be a lot easier to swallow if these knuckleheads weren't showing up in trucks that they've spent $100k on, making them useless for every real truck job in the process.

stuart in mn said:

frenchyd said:

Ah! The wonderful stupidity of youth. 
 Now get off my lawn.  
Why I remember how respectful of my elders when I was a kid. I helped little old ladies cross the street and everything. Said Sir and Ma'am.  Wore screw cut I got cut every Saturday. 
Or did I? 

I'll bet whatever you were doing as a kid wasn't as nearly as much of a middle finger to society as what's going on today...

As an example, a week or so ago some idiots blocked off an intersection in my neighborhood (one of the busiest intersections in Minneapolis), while a guy did smokey burnouts and donuts,  while simultaneously shooting off a couple dozen rounds in the air with his pistol.  That's a far cry from hooning around on a deserted road out in the country somewhere.

That sounds like the takeovers that started on the west coast that have been appearing a lot more lately. In the Tampa area they used to just do it at industrial warehouse lots or in shopping plazas, but lately they've been getting a lot more crazier by blocking off intersections. Luckily it is all happening late at night up til around 2am or so and not during rush hour or the middle of the day...

But this happened recently during July 4th, they decided to mess with a lady stuck in the middle of the intersection and she pulled a gun out on them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy4Aexh-3kY

Strangely enough because of all the attention being turned to the takeovers, the old Honda street racing guys are back at their old games again racing late at night for a few hours. 

lemachin said:

Keith Tanner said:

The fact that it's trucks isn't really a factor, it could be Harleys or sportbikes or Civics or old-school hot rods - all of whom have had this problem at one time or another

I think the trucks are a factor, though, since their huge size makes them inherently more dangerous to other road users. This is fine if you need the vehicle's capability, respect its size/impact, and drive accordingly. But then you factor in that many of these modifications make them more dangerous (increased ride height/reduced forward visibility) or deliberately more obnoxious (rolling coal) ...I gotta agree with ShinnyGroove on this one, antagonism/provocation seems to be baked into this scene. 

Trucks are big and heavy, but sportbikes can do 200 mph and accelerate like crazy. So I'd call it a different type of danger.

Its the young punk thing to do these days.  get a crowd together, even if its surrounding an otherwise legitimate show, and basically give authority the middle finger and have a party.

Even near DC, there was a group that descended on a otherwise innocent parking lot gathering and basically overpowered it to a burnout contest with a few hundred people street racing. When the cops came to shut it down, it went total E36 M3show with a few hundred cars in a group basically street racing up the road.  I live off the road and I dont hesitate to say that most run groups on a SCCA weekend at Summit Point are quieter...

Now the guys that do parking lot gatherings are a bit gunshy about being crowdbombed by these jackholes. 

stuart in mn said:

I'll bet whatever you were doing as a kid wasn't as nearly as much of a middle finger to society as what's going on today...

As an example, a week or so ago some idiots blocked off an intersection in my neighborhood (one of the busiest intersections in Minneapolis), while a guy did smokey burnouts and donuts,  while simultaneously shooting off a couple dozen rounds in the air with his pistol.  That's a far cry from hooning around on a deserted road out in the country somewhere.

As a middle aged guy: what I did was way worse than what most kids do today.  

Sure, you can pick and choose some stuff, but most kids today are lame and only care about social justice 'n stuff.  I blame 'Glee'.

frenchyd said:

Absolutely . To our eyes and standards it is.  But the population has more than doubled. Almost tripled since I was born.   
Life has less value nowdays.   Notoriety  seems to be of greater value than decency. Which is what is driving a lot of America's youth. 

Preparenthood. Or even preinvolvement with the fairer sex amplifies that base nature. 
    Finally. Less than 2% of. Americans have military experiance. Of that 2% only 5% are ever involved in combat. 
We boomers came from parents who's early life was deeply involved in military. Parents of even Uber Rich were drafted or volunteered. Sharing risks and life threatening experiences.  Then we were exposed to our own share of military risks with the draft. Some Uber rich parents lost their child.  So commonly shared values were still the norm. 
Unlike today. With its volunteer military where  those without a path to success and the middle  class.  
        Many Millenials trying to achieve success through education  have found instead of an upwards path the debt used to acquire that degree prevents them from achieving it.  The along come the Great Recession, the pandemic and they don't have a path upwards. 
 

 

In the infamous words of Lil' John, "Whhhhaaaatt?"

I've been working across the street from the Speedway since 2013, and have seen many events over that time. The only time this happened was the recent truck week. 
 

They tore up the parking lot in front of my office doing burnouts. 

edit: found the pictures. as far as minor collateral damage, there's this.  We had a client complain that we shouldn't have allowed this. Said that we were unprofessional.
 

Don't think her actual name was Karen, but whatever it was, it's close enough. Not because I'm defending the idiots that had the burnout contest in front of the office, just the idea that we would be able to do anything about it.

it's been a few weeks, and the black marks are gone, but the holes in the pavement are still there.

Another aspect of reputational collateral damage, is the fact that International Speedway Corporation will not allow any of the autocross clubs to use their parking lots, because we might damage the pavement. Doing a burnout would get you thrown out of an autocross event.

aw614 said:

That sounds like the takeovers that started on the west coast that have been appearing a lot more lately. In the Tampa area they used to just do it at industrial warehouse lots or in shopping plazas, but lately they've been getting a lot more crazier by blocking off intersections. Luckily it is all happening late at night up til around 2am or so and not during rush hour or the middle of the day...

There's been more and more of that here as well - they've even been blocking off all lanes on the Interstate to do their 'exhibition driving'.  It's been mostly at night, but there have been some daylight episodes too. (and of course this is on top of all the other crazy stuff that's been going on in Minneapolis these days, so it's been turning into the Wild West...a number of young children have been shot and killed in drive by shootings, just today another 3 year old caught a bullet from somewhere and is in critical condition.)

Sigh you just can't take some people anywhere.

The article said:

Squats began in Central Florida, Muhlbauer says, with “kids who go deer dogging in the woods”—using dogs to chase down deer. “They get way back in the swamp and they need all the traction they can get, so they raise the front, lower the rear. The concept moved from the woods onto the road and to the custom truck world.”

My fat hairy FloridaMan ass it did.  I know many folks that deer hunt that way and all that is is a good way to get stuck.

Edit: Also, every single word Muhlbauer says in this thing sounds self-serving.  I don't get it

The YouTube algorithm finds me a ton of channels full of by big dollar lifted truck dudes (with loads of followers) who take pride in pissing off neighbors who just want peace and quiet.  The commenters say "dude you need to blow your train horn at that old guy" and gets 1,200 likes.
 

It is a weirdly uncomfortable world to look upon - because I like a V8 with a lumpy cam as much as the next GRM dork... but the urge to say "get off my lawn" is strong. 

I found it interesting that many if not most of the mega wheeler showboats in the vid had broken or non op 4 wheel drive systems, open diffs on both axles, or both.  100k sunk into one wheel drive trucks that cant get out of a sand box but look all mega hella extra gnarly while blowing smoke and failing to go anywhere.  It reminds me a bit of the low rider and stance sub cultures in that it has specific very inside the culture criteria of what is 'cool'.   

We are living Idiocracy.  
 

Remember the George Carlin joke about the average person and the lower half being even dumber?  I'm convinced today's people are significantly dumber than the average person of two or three decades ago.  
 

This is just more example of it.  The street blocking "car shows" happening in most major cities are proof of it.  
 

We are living in dangerous times because very few things in life are more dangerous than stupid people.  

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm convinced today's people are significantly dumber than the average person of two or three decades ago. 

You don't say.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

  I'm convinced today's people are significantly dumber than the average person of two or three decades ago

Two decades ago I was 19. We were pretty damn dumb. It wasn't much different, we were always doing things to see how close we could walk the line of getting arrested, sometimes you stumbled over that line.

I bet there's actually less dumb kid stunts per capita than the old days, but back then you had to see it in person, or hear about it from someone who did. Now it's all online for us old codgers to see, so it seems like its everywhere. Honestly I think the younger generation is tamer than we were.

Stuff like this is absolutely going to ruin it for the rest of us. I'm just hoping the EPA will focus more on the diesels for a while before eventually turning their attention back to gas. My street cars all run high flow cats, but they have also all been modified in some way that the EPA would not like whether it be a tune, secondary cat deletes, catch can breathers, etc.

There is an event along the Gulf Coast of Mississippi that will celebrate its 25 th anniversary this year. They will have probably in excess of 8,500 entries this year. It is open to only cars 1989 and earlier and that year increases by one each year. When started the cut off was 1964. It was supposed to include classic cars, customs, hot rods and muscle cars. Each year the participants and people coming to watch increases with lawn chairs, canopies for several miles along the beach highway.  I've been to all but a couple and it's fun but the event has changed. People used to cruise there hot rods and old cars late into the evening/nights similar to what was done in the 50's and 60's. Sure there was the reving of engines and a few burnouts but by and large the police turned their head unless things got out of control or drinking was involved. 

Now during the days you see the old cars out and about cruising to the different venues or parked drawing large crowds. However, as evening approaches the old cars/hot rods are put away and by 7:00 pm a whole new crowd starts to appear. Of course there are exceptions. I have a couple cars I take for the week long event but park them before the craziness starts. The new crowd consists of late model muscle Mustangs, Camaros, Dodges, Ricers, Pickups of all persuasions ( lifted, squatted, coal rollers, etc. etc.) plus pretty much anything else you can raise hell with. Spectators encourage burn outs and get there will and I have personally seen a couple wheel stands. Lots of coal rolling. It's generally a lot wilder and careless then ever before with a good amount of drinking with arrests and cars/trucks towed away. What used to be police turning their heads has now evolved to police cars in the median of every block with lights flashing and no tolerance for burn outs if caught. 

I will say this is an extremely well run event. Now all venues close at 5:00 PM. The promoters can not control the actions of people who show up rather they are registered participates or not. I'm 75 like to have fun and go every year to this event for the whole week. Unfortunately everyone that is there gets lumped into together for bad behavior. The Chamber of Commerce loves this event for the money it brings in. The general public that live there hate it for the crowds and traffic it creates. Im sure the police (local, sheriff, state) dread the week it comes and long  hours of work. My fear is sooner or later there will be an accident/incident  into the crowds with people hurt or killed and  there will be cry's to end this event not because of the daytime organized activities but craziness that goes on at night from mostly non participants. 

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Whether or not people are more intelligent or mature is debatable, but people are more educated today than every before. They have access to better schooling and of course free access to every piece of known information through the internet. 100 years ago not being able to read or write wasn't as uncommon as people might think, but it's unheard of today. It would seem the missing pieces are respect and accountability. 

aw614 said:

But touring Daytona Beach after the Saturday show, it wasn’t just squatters that were doing burnouts, sounding air horns, blasting loud music and open exhausts, and blinding other motorists with hundred-LED bolt-on lights. How Muhlbauer is expected to control this is unclear, but it could cost him the 2022 Daytona Truck Meet, especially if the Speedway buckles to the pressure and refuses to rent him the track again.

“We bring a ton of tourism dollars to the city,” Muhlbauer says. If someone else organized it, a truck event could be entirely out of control. As it is, he gives the truckers an enclosed environment to show off. “Otherwise, it could be worse.”

What he said there sounds a lot like what I hear about all the kids going to Ocean City, MD at the event located where H2oi used to be held nearby. 

Guess Daytona is basically the Ocean City of the south....

Swap out deleted diesel trucks for slammed, cambered cars and this sounds exactly like Ocean City during H20 weekends.  The part I find funny, is they have two other cruise weekends early and late in the season with fewer import vehicles but the same stupidity and they never seem to have the same issues with local police.

Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) said:

aw614 said:

But touring Daytona Beach after the Saturday show, it wasn’t just squatters that were doing burnouts, sounding air horns, blasting loud music and open exhausts, and blinding other motorists with hundred-LED bolt-on lights. How Muhlbauer is expected to control this is unclear, but it could cost him the 2022 Daytona Truck Meet, especially if the Speedway buckles to the pressure and refuses to rent him the track again.

“We bring a ton of tourism dollars to the city,” Muhlbauer says. If someone else organized it, a truck event could be entirely out of control. As it is, he gives the truckers an enclosed environment to show off. “Otherwise, it could be worse.”

What he said there sounds a lot like what I hear about all the kids going to Ocean City, MD at the event located where H2oi used to be held nearby. 

Guess Daytona is basically the Ocean City of the south....

Swap out deleted diesel trucks for slammed, cambered cars and this sounds exactly like Ocean City during H20 weekends.  The part I find funny, is they have two other cruise weekends early and late in the season with fewer import vehicles but the same stupidity and they never seem to have the same issues with local police.

Oh yeah I always remembered reading that the cruise-in and the bike day events in Ocean City were sanctioned events. But the H2oi show that was never held in Ocean City, but nearby was not. 

frenchyd said:

....Life has less value nowdays...... 

    ....Finally. Less than 2% of. Americans have military experiance. Of that 2% only 5% are ever involved in combat....

Totally disagree with the first point.  Farther back in history clearly not the case. Even compared to the more recent past (e.g. 50 years), there is a far lower tolerance for risk in general. Just look at F1!

Second point:  You do know where The Hells Angles originated from right?  
 

I don't disagree that time in the military could help a lot of people (if nothing else, keep them off the streets), but it clearly has little to no (positive) affect on many and combat can have a very negative effect on many more. 
 

frenchyd said:

Absolutely . To our eyes and standards it is.  But the population has more than doubled. Almost tripled since I was born.   
Life has less value nowdays.   Notoriety  seems to be of greater value than decency. Which is what is driving a lot of America's youth. 

Parents of even Uber Rich were drafted or volunteered. Sharing risks and life threatening experiences.  Then we were exposed to our own share of military risks with the draft.

LOL

The rich have forever been able to avoid sending their children to war.  It was definitely harder during WWII, but afterwards it was definitely easier, especially later wars like Vietnam.

Also, what the hell does being a veteran, especially a combat veteran, have to do with not being a jackass or an idiot?  Do you know what sort of standards were relaxed during the Surge? 

Hell, in general the military is staffed with a bunch of goobers.  Its the few people without their heads up their asses that make it run as well as it does.  The only thing the military does is pound situational awareness into you and give you enough training and rote memorization that you can't help but know your job on muscle memory.  Even that can be iffy. 
FFS I once saw a soldier salute an officer with his left hand because he was carrying a bag in his right; it was a shopping bag with some chips and a soda.

Your mileage may vary.

350z247 said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

100 years ago not being able to read or write wasn't as uncommon as people might think, but it's unheard of today.

It seems like this "should" be right.  However, if you start digging into reality of education today and what is going on in large cities in the poor areas, you'll find this isn't the case.