In praise of minivans

We bought our 2012 CVP van for ~18k plus taxes about 1 1/2 years ago and LOVED it. (2 kids, family vehicle). We were forced to sell it when we relocated to Perth this Christmas. We now drive a Mazda CX-9. It's nice, but it doesn't come close to the Caravan as a family hauler. If nothing else: sliding doors are worth their weight in gold with kids.

Vigo wrote:

Toyotas are also about 25% as common as the Mopar triplets.

Where i'm at it's more like 4%.

I haven't been able to find the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised of Mopar sold more triplets in one month than the entire Previa US sales from 1990-97.

I bought a 1st gen '98 Odyssey with a slipping trans several months before our 3rd child was born. we took it on a few trips and loved the smaller size and excellent mpg (25 on the hwy driving through REAL Utah mountains).

I 5-speed swapped it using an accord trans from the pick n pull. I finished up the swap a few weeks before baby was due only to find out the trans is stuck in gear. Not having a car that would fit 2 car seats and a booster in the back seat really panicked me (wtf are modern car seats so HUGE?) so I picked up another super clean '95 Odyssey for $1800.

My wife adores this van. Now i need to figure out what to do with the 98. I've considered fixing and keeping it as my dd but 2 minivans seems a little weird. Ideally the larger vtec motor and 5-speed would find their way into the 95 but then we wouldn't have a way to move the family while I did the swap.

Maybe I need to pick up another cheap van? Lol!

Interesting fact. The 1st gen Odyssey is really close in all dimensions to the new Mazda5. Im going to get a set of koni str.ts and lowering springs to make it a bit more car like.

Can't argue against the availability of the Chrysler vans, but as a happy MPV owner, I can say that I've driven several Caravans, and the driving dynamics are pretty poor in comparison to the MPV. I'm disappointed that Mazda stopped selling the MPV here in 2005. It's going to put me in a bind when I'm shopping for a new van in 10 years or so.

Duke wrote: Toyotas are also about 25% as common as the Mopar triplets.

By the way, I meant all Toyota minivans - Previas and Siennas. Previas are scarcer than hen's teeth these days. Siennas are all over around here, but still NOTHING like the Voyager/Caravan/TC.

2002maniac wrote: Interesting fact. The 1st gen Odyssey is really close in all dimensions to the new Mazda5. Im going to get a set of koni str.ts and sowing springs to make it a bit more car like.

How hard is the manual swap on one of these? I assume, being a Honda, that getting the motor in one to make respectable power is not very difficult?

1st gen doesn't have sliding doors though, right?

Thanks for the comments guys. I was thing Dodge triplets as well. I know they had a 3.3 and a 3.8 I think? Just curious if either is the preferred choice?

BBC

In reply to Billy_Bottle_Caps:

I can tell you we've had both with nary a problem with either.

Billy_Bottle_Caps wrote: Thanks for the comments guys. I was thing Dodge triplets as well. I know they had a 3.3 and a 3.8 I think? Just curious if either is the preferred choice? BBC

I hate to be too obvious, but the 3.8 will pull better and is faster, but the 3.3 will give you better economy. I would think the 3.3 would be a good choice for 90% of your use?

DrBoost wrote:

Billy_Bottle_Caps wrote: Thanks for the comments guys. I was thing Dodge triplets as well. I know they had a 3.3 and a 3.8 I think? Just curious if either is the preferred choice? I think the 3.3 will work for my intent. I was just checking to make sure there wasn't a problem with eig=ther, but after your comments and a little search off GRM arches, both get positive reviews. Even the 2.4 sounds good if you aren't in any hurry BBC

I hate to be too obvious, but the 3.8 will pull better and is faster, but the 3.3 will give you better economy. I would think the 3.3 would be a good choice for 90% of your use?

The 3.3 is adequate but struggles a tad with full load and AC. Conventional wisdom says it is more reliable than the 3.8. With the 3.3 I get 19-20 mpg in mostly town driving.

In reply to ProDarwin: The Odyssey 5 speed swap is pretty easy actually. The accord flywheel, clutch, and trans bolt right in using the stock van mounts after drilling a new hole for the passenger side mount. The only tricky part is mounting the accord clutch pedal in the footwell. I would not recommend starting with a 98. They used a different speed sensor setup.

You are correct on the doors. No sliding doors which is not as convenient, but makes it feel more like a car.

My much lowered 2012 mz5:

I regularly haul four semi tires in it.

My 2007 GCV:

Minivans are wildly useful, police don't look at them and on highway both of mine pull down over 25mpg....28.5 and 27 respectively.

As mentioned, mine is a 3.3 and I'm averaging in the low 20's. If the 3.3 has one advantage of the larger engine, it's OHV vs OHC so it doesn't have the timing belt maintenance issue to deal with. I swear when they originally designed the '08, it's as if they pondered stuffing a V8 into it. The 3.3 looks tiny in the engine bay. Other potential downside: the larger engines are available with towing packages, the 3.3 was not.

Knowing what I do now, and if I had plans to keep the van more than a few years (I really want a Sprinter-RV), I would get the larger engine and find one with a towing package that is wired for a brake controller. Of course, the larger engine has gas mileage comparable to full-size conversion vans, so...

In reply to Ian F:

Thanks for the posts and info. Thinking 3.3 towing is not an issue and I like the thought of low 20's in town.

We bought our 2003 MPV new with 7 miles on it. After 10 years, 130k miles, and 3 kids its getting a bit long in the tooth so we're starting to look for its replacement. I've used it as a people mover and a truck and it's never let us down. I'd like another minivan but towing capacity is an issue. It was my DD until last spring when I inherited a Civic.

Well since someone linked back to this in a new thread i will add more.

I know they had a 3.3 and a 3.8 I think? Just curious if either is the preferred choice?

They are externally identical ala 305 vs 350 sbc. Reliability is the exact same (great and great). My opinion is the 3.8 is a big torque jump for a small mpg loss so i slightly prefer it.

If the 3.3 has one advantage of the larger engine, it's OHV vs OHC so it doesn't have the timing belt maintenance issue to deal with.

The 3.8 is externally identical to the 3.3 and both are ohv/timing chain. There was a 4.0L engine available for 2008-2010 that is SOHC with a timing belt. I just did one of these belts in a pacifica (basically a swoopy van) and it was not that bad. In 2011 the 3.6 Pentastar came out with more power and a timing chain.

I swear when they originally designed the '08, it's as if they pondered stuffing a V8 into it. The 3.3 looks tiny in the engine bay.

A few nuances that only an auto tech or chrysler minivan enthusiast (or both? im weird) would know: The 96-00 3.3/3.8 vans can be bitchy to work on because the intake manifold rests over the rear valve cover and the cowl area extends over the top of the intake. The 01-07 3.3/3.8 vans are much easier to do some things on because the intake manifold is centered over the engine. The cowl is still over the rear part of the engine but at least you can do spark plugs from the top using the 'reach around' method. The 08-10 3.3/3.8 vans are easiest of all because the intake manifold is centered over the engine AND the cowl doesnt extend over the rear of the engine.

So, when speaking of 3.3/3.8 vans, the newer they are, the easier they are to work on, basically.

I loved my 93 caravan, didn't even have kids yet it was just offered up for a really good deal because the 3.0 needed a water pump. the 99 town and country on the other hand led me to buying my wifes first suv. Shes more comfortable in the suv's because 4wd eases her mind for some reason in the winter. After test driving a friends Subaru wagon she now wants one of those and im a firm believer in wagon>all

If I could get my friend to sell one of his turbo 2.5 vans too me cheap enough I would rock a minivan for a daily again!

Does she like stop and shift it into 4hi? Because if not, you're talking about AWD and caravans had that. But i know it's not always the right approach to force people to explain themselves using logical thinking when they can retaliate in so many ways! Save that for people on the internet.

For the record, i want you to own a 2.5 Turbo Caravan and now i need to know your location so i can forward relevant for sale ads.

Vigo wrote: Does she like stop and shift it into 4hi? Because if not, you're talking about AWD and caravans had that. But i know it's not always the right approach to force people to explain themselves using logical thinking when they can retaliate in so many ways! Save that for people on the internet. For the record, i want you to own a 2.5 Turbo Caravan and now i need to know your location so i can forward relevant for sale ads.

she would have been ok with an awd caravan but ours was 2wd. I live in van wert ohio and theres 2 of them owned by the same guy here. He just doesn't want to get rid of either of them. I have a soft spot for old 80's boxy vehicles that has grown to include that style of caravan.

I will say that you can get a AWD 3.8 Grand Caravan all crossed up in a hilarious manner in the snow if you give it the old Scandinavian flick and floor it. It will also tow 4000 lbs comfortably (with a bigass cooler), and take a ton of neglect shockingly well for a late 90s Chrysler product.

I live in van wert ohio and theres 2 of them owned by the same guy here.

Ohio is actually pretty much the epicenter of 1st gen turbo caravan action.

Between just two guys that i know about are at least 7 turbo caravans and 2 of them include THE fastest and one of the fastest 4cyl 1st gen caravans ever built.

My SRT4-swapped 1st gen van was owned by one of those guys before it was sold to another guy who did the srt4 swap before it was sold to another guy who then sold it to me in Texas. I've also driven a literal truckload of rust-free caravan body parts to NE Ohio to keep some of theirs alive.

You live in a good place to get into turbo caravans.

Well, the Battle Bus (2000 Dodge GC Sport) got rear-ended a couple days ago - 5 weeks after DD#1's Impreza was hit, about a mile away on the same road. Needs a hatch, back bumper assembly, front bumper cover (guy in a Chevy Aveo-type thing hit her hard enough to push the GC into the car in front ). 3 interior seats need to be replaced because the backs laid back about 10 degrees from the impact ).

Unfortunately, I'm sure they will try to total it. It only has 70,000 miles on it, and is worth much more to me as a functioning vehicle than it will be as an insurance check, but it's a 14-year-old commodity vehicle. Also unfortunately, Delaware is kind of a pain in the ass about rebuilt/salvage titles.

I'm assuming that the Mopar triplets are going to be the value leader on the used market. I'd like the most feature-rich minivan I can get for the least amount of money. I prefer the long wheelbase and interior volume of the GC, but I am open to other makes and models. Suggestions?

Duke wrote: I'd like the most feature-rich minivan I can get for the least amount of money. Suggestions?

First, really sorry to hear about what happened to the Battle Bus, that seriously sucks. To answer above, that's a perfect description for the 2006 (mid-year) to 2011 Kia Sedona. Ours is the base of base models, with a roof rack as the only factory option. It came standard with 3 zone climate control, power windows/locks, cruise, stability control, good factory stereo system, etc... it did excellent in crash testing, is faster than you'd think, can tow 3500lbs easily (trust me on that one), and is amazingly versitle. The Sienna or Oddity are "nicer" vans, but cost a lot more. Our Sedona has been the perfect "battle bus", something we've beaten the snot out of between kids, hauling, towing, etc...and it's held up extremely well. If you really want leather and other high end things, get the EX trim level. You can pick up a nice used one for dirt cheap. Best bang for the buck minivan out there.

Actually, my wife and I are tossing around the idea of replacing it. It's never been a daily driver until a few months ago. Our nannies drove it, then when we ditched the nanny deal it was the weeknight/weekend kid hauler, tow vehicle, errand runner. After our move, it's now my wife's DD. It shows signs of 8 years of abuse...i.e. it's dirty, scratched and kid-ified. She wants something a bit nicer, so we're contemplating something else. Even if we get her something, I'm very tempted to keep it and continue beating it to a pulp.

Klayfish wrote: First, really sorry to hear about what happened to the Battle Bus, that seriously sucks. To answer above, that's a perfect description for the 2006 (mid-year) to 2011 Kia Sedona.

Thanks for that! Added it to the list.

Someone (I thought it was in this thread) was casting doubts about the 2008-2010 Mopar minivan twins. What are the issues (if any real issues exist)? I ask, because the >2008 vans have a substantially updated interior and feature list, compared to the older generation.