based on your picture Im assuming you are using cathedral port heads. Since the 4.9 uses a 4" bore you could run some rectangular port ls heads and that could simplify your runner design, thats if you havent already started on the head build.
They also flow considerably more than cathedral ports
If you work with 6061 Aluminum, it pays to heat treat the metal first to make it malleable.
The T6 temper is quite hard, any bends are liable to crack. If you drop a piece of T6 on the floor, it will ring like a bell.
The T0 temper is quite soft, easy to bend and form and flatten to match oval ports, making tapered tubes over a form and bellmouthing the ends is is simple. If you drop a piece of T0 on the floor, it lands with a thud, and the edge will flatten where it hits.
Once formed and welded, the manifold can be heat treated back to T3-T6 for strength and durability.
In reply to asphalt_gundam :
Shell casting, likely. Might need to get creative with a few aspects of the casting portion, but that's stuff I've mostly covered already. Transition to oval or smooth rectangular ports at the plenum site would be helpful for a couple of the issues that Solidworks is giving me fits about. I'll look into it.
Opti said:thats if you havent already started on the head build.
Yeahhhhh.....
I got the heads for free, so that's a good part of why I went with them
Mr_Asa said:In reply to asphalt_gundam :
Shell casting, likely. Might need to get creative with a few aspects of the casting portion, but that's stuff I've mostly covered already. Transition to oval or smooth rectangular ports at the plenum site would be helpful for a couple of the issues that Solidworks is giving me fits about. I'll look into it.
Well, that made a lot of things much easier. I think I'm going to figure out a throttle body, print it out, and run this.
Opti has a strong point in that getting it running is better than anything else. Can always hunt for HP later. Also, goes back to my previous decision to not hunt perfection for more than I have to.
That #3 is a bit wonky, but Solidworks is being a bitch about that one
Things an intake needs:
Other?
Injectors are aimed at the center of the circle made by the intake valve's lip, are roughly 6.5" away.
I need a good throttle body to plan for this. How to size the throttle body?
Mr_Asa said:I need a good throttle body to plan for this. How to size the throttle body?
Big enough that it doesn't choke the top end but not so large it drives you crazy at tip in. Some of that will depend on drive by cable/wire, what ecu you will use to control, if you need/want an idle valve integrated. In general the GM with the stepper motors or Ford with 2 wire IAC is easy to integrate with most standalones. Usually 65-75mm is good for engines around 200-300whp. What's the displacement/power guess again?
The GM LQ4 6.0 produced up to 330 hp and had an 80mm throttle body. The LS7 produced 505 HP and had a 90mm throttle body. Based on my calculations you need the 80mm if you don't turbo this thing and the 90mm if you do.
If there's room in the chassis and its workable within reason put some tapper (away from flange) on the plenum. Larger to the throttle body end with the TB to the outer side. This increases the volume and will more evenly feed air to all the cylinders. The simple constant design you have will run but it will also have inconsistent cylinder feeding with the cylinder closest to the TB getting significantly more air than the furthest one.
Granted its apples/oranges but a previous customer that did pulling tractors did this simple change and in addition some air deflectors for each cylinder and saw a 150+ HP gain (1500ish HP tractor). The Ford 6.0 Powerstroke also has this same problem with its intake manifold design.
Similar to this:
Taper helps the most when the plenum is under-sized. You can see this in the Holley bolt on plenum for the LS engines.
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:Mr_Asa said:I need a good throttle body to plan for this. How to size the throttle body?Big enough that it doesn't choke the top end but not so large it drives you crazy at tip in. Some of that will depend on drive by cable/wire, what ecu you will use to control, if you need/want an idle valve integrated. In general the GM with the stepper motors or Ford with 2 wire IAC is easy to integrate with most standalones. Usually 65-75mm is good for engines around 200-300whp. What's the displacement/power guess again?
I think we figured it should do in the range of 300-350? 300ci motor, might bore it slightly, but about that much.
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:Taper helps the most when the plenum is under-sized. You can see this in the Holley bolt on plenum for the LS engines.
Right now this thing is about 1:0.8 for engine volume/plenum volume, if I go to taper it it will probably push it to about 1:1
In reply to Mr_Asa :
I wouldnt worry about having a ton of vacuum ports. Id have a single for only PCV and a big one for brake booster, and then one to just run to a vacuum manifold and run everything else off that.
Dont forget something to mount the fuel rail to, no the injectors themselves but the actual fuel rails.
Also how are you going to tune it? Do you need a hole for a MAP sensor? If you are you can mount it on the manifold or you can also remote mount it and run it off a vacuum manifold.
I'm thinking through the injector mounting. Currently my model is using a Denso style injector, but I'm thinking of going to the LS style as I'm not sure what uses the Denso injectors (was the best available model I found) and I can guarantee I can find the LS style in a JY
Fuel rail itself is going to be interesting. Itll be a custom angle, custom spacing I6. Need to look into how to develop one of those.
I was probably going to remote mount the MAP solely because I'm not to the point where I can think about which to use.
Fuel rails are easy.
Go buy an appropriate length of Holley fuel rail extrusion and drill/ream all the holes in the correct place.
Mr_Asa said:Fuel rail itself is going to be interesting. Itll be a custom angle, custom spacing I6. Need to look into how to develop one of those.
Buy fuel rail extrusion, make mounts, drill holes, ???, profit
At least that's what it looks like to me. It should be the simple part.
LS3 Throttle body.
Is this whole thing cast? Whats going on with the corners just before the #1 runner and after the #6? Or is that area for welds?
In reply to ProDarwin :
Not sure which corners you're talking about? Can you MS Paint an arrow or something?
I will be casting it, though
Also, for E36 M3s and giggles, I threw it on Shapeways to see what a price would be.
LOL
Decorative crap cause why not
MKE built some rails for the v12 308. There really isn't much too them. They essentially need to be a pipe with a place for injectors to mount and fuel to be fed in.
If you can cast this, manufacturing a fuel rail should be very easy. Quick and dirty is some tubing with holes for injectors and an AN fitting threaded into the end for fuel input and like 3 L tabs for mounting to the manifold. You could put the regulator on the end or remote mount it somewhere.
My motor makes 299 on the nose with an 82.5mm throttle.
Ok folks, I'm ready to print this in order to start casting. Due to size and how I had to cut it up I'll end up printing it over roughly a week and a half to two weeks. Because of that I'd like to have a couple sets of eyes on this.
This is a 3D PDF, they're a bit finnicky to open, but if it doesn't open you can try updating Adobe.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mHpPN69faoHr3SYlkE-hZt3fyIX913au/view?usp=sharing
Regular PDF calling out everything on here that I think should be on an intake.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SkfTrH59smmsO_f9WtjpHLcg_keeYEvK/view?usp=sharing
EGR?
I meant these 2 parts:
Also, send me a CAD file of some sort and I'll be happy to take a detailed look
You'll need to log in to post.
