Interesting towing videos

I'll admit, I'm posting this to be provocative. I'm a firm believer that you don't require a giant truck to haul 5000 LBS. These guys are highly regarded with the Airstream crowd. Check out the Jetta and MINI videos.

http://canamrv.ca/towing/

I talked to them today about a tow vehicle for 4-5000 lbs for an open car hauler. They like short rear overhangs, at least 3-3.5L of displacement, and good aerodynamics. Sounds good to me.

Hey, im with you. Ive noticed from my own experience towing with unconventional tow vehicles that stability is a lot more important than size. Quality vs quantity, in a way.

The rear overhang thing is a conclusion ive come to and repeated here often. Imo it's one of the extenuating circumstances that can make some smaller, non-truck tow vehicles feel more sure-footed in transitions than trucks.

Those videos dont seem to be pushing hard enough to show very much that is useful. The most blatant difference wasnt between different vehicles but between the airstream and the 'other' trailer.

so I guess towing with the saab would be hard.. but the short "bobtailed" 318ti would be perfect?

Aside from engine size that is

What are you trying to pull?

mad_machine wrote: so I guess towing with the saab would be hard.. but the short "bobtailed" 318ti would be perfect? Aside from engine size that is

My 900 came with a tow-hitch installed. According to the owner's manual, it's rated at a maximum of 3300 lbs (1500 kg) on gradients that do not exceed 10 %.

I used to tow with a Dodge Caravan, the short model, not the Grand. It had the bigger 3.3 engine, too. Oh, and around the time I used it to tow, it had 85K on the original autotragic trans, and the van went on to top 100K miles, and then we sold it. I've been in giant pickup trucks that felt more wobbly/wander-y when towing. I still don't know why anyone who tows less than 5000 lbs. needs a giant 1-ton dually.

The interwebs are full of adamant people who swear up and down that it is is fine to tow big load X with little car Y and maybe it is. I did it. I pulled cars with little Nissan trucks. I pulled a 20' enclosed fully loaded with a race weekend worth of valuables with a 4.7L Tundra. I pulled a UHaul pop-up with a 325. Nothing bad ever happened except a lot of liquid dino got wasted, some transmissions smelled bad and there were a bunch of white knuckles in a wind storm or two but then... I bought a Chevy 2500 HD.

There is something to be said for pulling 12k lbs averaging 16mpg with cruise and AC on and not worrying a single bit about the weather or if it is loaded properly. Being able to pull away from a stop, uphill and merge at freeway speeds or come to a controlled stop in a reasonable distance even if the trailer brakes decide to crap out.

Now I think those internet towing experts should probably try doing it right once before they repeat the myth that a Mini is a good tow vehicle.

I'm trying to find the picture of the Crown Victoria where the owner cut off most of the trunk to put the hitch ball right behind the rear axle, instead of three feet further behind it.

Edit: Found it

I agree that you don't need a large truck to tow a car trailer. I also noticed that when I shortened the ball mount on my van it towed a lot better. If you drive appropriately you can tow a lot with a little. The picture above is me towing >5000lbs with a 92 mazda mpv. I only went 80km/h and stuck to service roads and it was no problem. I now have an f250 which I bought because it was a good deal (I would have been fine with a f150). It is a lot nicer to tow with.

Show me the one where a mini van pulls out in front of the jag. That's the one I'm interested in seeing how well it performs.

Controlled slalom != Evasive maneuver.

over the Thanksgiving day weekend i went to Summit Point for the Turkey Bowl put on by VRG.. a guy was there with a sprite on a small aluminum trailer. tow vehicle of choice; Volvo V70R.. which one is faster on track, i'm not quite sure, but i think i'd take the volvo..

To me, these threads always end up at the same place.

It's perfectly OK to tow 5000 lbs with a vehicle rated to tow 5000 lbs, but it's safer, easier, and less stressful to tow 5000 lbs with a vehicle rated for much more. That's all.

Just because you can play stick ball at the park with a peice of a tree limb doesn't mean a Louisville Slugger won't be more effective.

I'm all for doing stuff on the cheap, just be reasonable and be safe. If you feel you can do both while towing your 5000 lb trailer with your 2500 lb subcompact, that's fine. You just better not be on the highway going 35 mph going up a big hill and then 90 mph coming down the other side with 3 miles of traffic behind you, just because your engine and brakes aren't up to the task.

RossD wrote: Just because you can play stick ball at the park with a peice of a tree limb doesn't mean a Louisville Slugger won't be more effective.

Ooohh. Allegories. Sweet.

You can have unprotected sex with hookers once in a while and maybe get away with it... but with the right equipment you can do it safely all the time!

Why is it that people all of a sudden feel like you need to drive 80mph when you are towing? You know that 60,000lb load of food hauled in a 53' trailer? the truck pulling it sure as hell doesn't weigh 60,000lbs it weighs about 18,000lbs and they tow oversized loads with them. They are relative to their load VERY small vehicles but becasue they are properly outfitted and designed to tow safetly they do just fine. Bumper pull can be safe too. You ever seen a 70,000lb+ mobile home being moved by a 120" wheel base bumper pull truck? It happens everyday.

Funny thing my dad put over 2,000,000 miles towing 70-80klbs loads with a 425hp Volvo Semi truck that weighed about 17,000lbs. The internet seems to think that for me to tow my 5000lb load I need a truck that weighs minimum 9000lbs with >350hp....

I've put about 30k miles towing a 43' fithwheel weighing about 14,000lbs with a F250 and I NEVER felt "comfortable or relaxed". I had to drive it delibrately just like I would with any vehicle towing anything. I personally don't go by the school of thought that a properly loaded trailer is in any way something you think "isn't even there". Piloting any trailer vehicle combination is more dangerous. The margin of forgiveness may be higher with a F250 pulling a 3000lb boat but you still have nearly 11,000lbs that you are piloting down the road and need to think about that at all times.

dinger wrote: To me, these threads always end up at the same place. It's perfectly OK to tow 5000 lbs with a vehicle rated to tow 5000 lbs, but it's safer, easier, and less stressful to tow 5000 lbs with a vehicle rated for much more. That's all.

Winner! Could not agree more.

nocones wrote: Funny thing my dad put over 2,000,000 miles towing 70-80klbs loads with a 425hp Volvo Semi truck that weighed about 17,000lbs. The internet seems to think that for me to tow my 5000lb load I need a truck that weighs minimum 9000lbs with >350hp....

Except that the vehicle your father towed with was designed specifically for that purpose and nothing else and has a HUGE stable base of 2 axles and 8 giant tires directly under the front of the load and situated within the wheelbase.

When you bumper tow 5klbs with your unibody Caravan you are not exactly operating in it's sweet spot. Like... when you get hard on the brakes and the trailer load xfers 1500lbs to the rear bumper - what happens to the steering and braking capacity of your mini van?

I'm not suggesting exceeding tow ratings. That would be like asking what would happen if you hitched you 2500 up to 1.5 times its max tow rating bumper pull. It's going to be just as unsafe as your 5000lb caravan example. That said a properly equiped caravan towing the 3500bs its rated to is safe. I was simply pointing out its not just an issue of tow vehicle size. Proper design and equipment make the difference.

...what happens to the steering and braking capacity of your mini van?

It sucked to begin with. An extra 3000 lbs. out back actually didn't make it much worse.

If you were going to rear-end someone in a Caravan, it would've happened, period, a lack of trailer wouldn't have saved you. So it's just driver error.

nocones wrote: Why is it that people all of a sudden feel like you need to drive 80mph when you are towing? You know that 60,000lb load of food hauled in a 53' trailer? the truck pulling it sure as hell doesn't weigh 60,000lbs it weighs about 18,000lbs and they tow oversized loads with them. They are relative to their load VERY small vehicles but becasue they are properly outfitted and designed to tow safetly they do just fine. Bumper pull can be safe too. You ever seen a 70,000lb+ mobile home being moved by a 120" wheel base bumper pull truck? It happens everyday. Funny thing my dad put over 2,000,000 miles towing 70-80klbs loads with a 425hp Volvo Semi truck that weighed about 17,000lbs. The internet seems to think that for me to tow my 5000lb load I need a truck that weighs minimum 9000lbs with >350hp....

Weighs 100,000lbs. Can pull 800,000. According to your logic, because it can, a MINI should be able to do 16,000, no problem!

Twin_Cam wrote:

...what happens to the steering and braking capacity of your mini van?

It sucked to begin with. An extra 3000 lbs. out back actually didn't make it much worse. If you were going to rear-end someone in a Caravan, it would've happened, period, a lack of trailer wouldn't have saved you. So it's just driver error.

This makes no sense at all.

^^^^^^ Thank you.

All you need to tow is a Goldwing

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Common sense here, call your insurance agent before you think you should, because you can.

i certainly feel safer with giant rotors and colossal rear drums and dropping the tongue weight on 4 rear tires instead of 2. i towed with v6 half tons for a long time safely, but never knew what i was missing until i bought my 1 ton long wheelbase big block dually with load range E tires. i'm for more is always better when towing. if i lose trailer brakes with a 5000# load behind a half ton or smaller i'm screwed in panic stop situations. i lost them a few weeks ago with 9000# of trailer with dumptruck on it and was able to stop just fine.

and before someone says "if you tow safe there are no panic stops" - there is always that d-bag who sees the need to not be behind you so they pull out in front no matter how close you are.