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Curtis
Curtis UltimaDork
8/18/19 2:28 p.m.
wheelsmithy said:

As a Cummins owner, I say GM truck, get as big a one/ engine as you need. You CAN DD a diesel, but plugging it in is a headache, and short trips are not what they're good at. I was super impressed towing with a buddy's 5.3 (?) GMT. I love my 93 Dodge, but it is a dinosaur.

I got mine cheap, but the diesel tax is real, and mostly unreasonable in my opinion.

 

Plug in?  Not since the 80s.  Every diesel I've ever had started just fine in frigid winter weather.  Short trips were only an issue for older IDI diesels without much fuel pressure.  Modern diesels don't have that issue anymore.  Your comments would have maybe applied in 1992, but they are more or less a myth now.

And I don't worry about the diesel tax.  The LB7 gets 23+ mpg.  My F150 with the 5.4L got 14 mpg.  So until diesel fuel is literally twice as much as gas, I save a lot in fuel cost with diesel.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
8/18/19 3:12 p.m.

As the owner of a Diesel truck in the OP's price range ('96 long bed/regular cab Powerstroke w/ 310k on the clock) I'd advise getting a gaes engined one. One thing people forget about Diesels is the additional running and maintenance cost, which is fine when you're only dealing with oil changes. But when it's your daily driver and you have to find a Diesel-specific job because your local mechanic doesn't work on whatever is wrong with it/doesn't have an cherry picker that can lift the engine to swap out the motor mounts, things tend to get expensive really quickly.

I do like my old Powerstroke, but the next truck is going to have a gas engine again.

Also, depending on where you end up in Virginia and where you work, parking such a vehicle can be a PITA. I briefly considered leasing a Jeep Gladiator as my DD due to the spectacular residuals, until I tried to envisage me parking it at a client site.

yupididit
yupididit UltraDork
8/18/19 3:46 p.m.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

Virginia Beach has pretty decent parking. 

 

iceracer
iceracer UltimaDork
8/18/19 6:00 p.m.

In reply to TurboFocus :

What ever is the best buy.

Jcamper
Jcamper Reader
8/18/19 7:26 p.m.

I would not buy a diesel truck unless you are willing to spend at least 25k. The older trucks might “last forever” but even stuff that has been maintained and upgraded, with good drivetrains have sort of settled at 15k. These are 20 year old items. Get something well maintained and newer. Jcamper

90BuickCentury
90BuickCentury New Reader
8/18/19 8:02 p.m.

I had an 03 F350 crew cab long bed 4x4 6.0 Diesel that was a blast to drive, but a freaking PITA to park. Sold it after a couple months. Have a 2011 F150 regular cab 8ft bed 3.7L gas V6 2wd that I bought new. I have towed cars 550 miles one way with no problem. I DD it sometimes when I need to but prefer to DD one of my other cars. I'd suggest getting an older $1,000-2,000 gas truck for periodic towing etc and getting a $3,000-5,000 car to DD.

TurboFocus
TurboFocus Reader
8/18/19 9:37 p.m.

Lots to reply here with...
We have some mixed reviews on the older chevy diesels, so those are still on the table but lower on the desirability list.

The diesel tax I'm talking about is really more about the dang things holding their value so well, not the literal tax on diesel fuel. Think of it like the 'drift tax' or 'bro tax'

I'd likely be doing my own maintenance , so my biggest issues would probably be things along the lines of having a large enough cherry picker. Other than a cherry pickers, what other tools would i likely need to upgrade or work around?

 

For the gas tow versions i'll probably run with a $1-4k chevy suburban/tahoe or if I'm feeling fancy... the Cadillac versions. We'll assume that it'll come with the 5.3. Good news with this plan is that I can afford the vehicle and a trailer or ratty firebird. If GRM is confident that a 5.3 is up to the task to tow a bare bones enclosed trailer 500-600 miles 1-4x a year and local tow trips more regularly, then I'm very game to drop the diesel idea. If y'all think a nicer/newer gen 5.3 is what to look for then I'm good to go for one of those too (under $6-7k).

Turbine
Turbine Reader
8/19/19 8:38 a.m.

I’ve owned a 2002 chevy (LB7 duramax) and recently picked up a 2005 dodge 3500 (Cummins). Both were bought for under $10k, and were higher mileage, but otherwise solid trucks that I’ve used to tow and DD. I could have probably gotten away with a gas truck, but I just kinda like diesels, so that’s what I went with  

If you’re looking to DIY, the Dodge is the way to go. There’s so much more room under the engine bay and everything is pretty easily accessible. Replacing the injectors on the LB7 was one of the least fun automotive jobs I’ve done. I also prefer the solid front axle in my Dodge. The ride is definitely tougher though. That being said, the interior was nicer on the Chevy, and truck seemed a little higher quality overall. 

The Allison trans was nicer to DD and tow with, but the 48re does the job. Neither will take much additional power though if you’re looking to crank it up. 

American diesel isn’t great, so both of my trucks got aftermarket lift pumps for filtration purposes, and I ran mild tow tunes for some extra power and efficiency. EFI live for the Duramax and Firepunk/HPTuners for the Cummins. Get an EGT gauge and keep up on your fuel filter changes, and either truck should last you for a while. 

TurboFocus
TurboFocus Reader
8/19/19 9:39 p.m.

Older dodge if one comes up for the right price, got it!

 

Really not wanting to touch the truck after I buy it. If it's got a purpose that isnt fun, I'll leave it alone. Aftermarket goodies just aren't in the budget or on the list of desirables for a DD/tow rig. That money is best spent else anyways.

 

Filtration pump thingys, that sounds like a good idea to me!

Curtis
Curtis UltimaDork
8/20/19 5:13 p.m.

I'll offer a quick synopsis of the diesels I like.  It's not a definitive list, but it might give you something to shop for and see if you can find some gems in your budget.  The "diesel tax" you refer to is real, but it completely works in your favor.  Yes, higher buy-in, but way better sell value.  None of my diesel trucks ever lost me any money with one exception.  I paid $10k for a diesel van, drove it for 40k miles and resold it for $9k.  The rest I waited for a bargain and either broke even when I sold, or made money.  My best one was breaking even on a 95 F250 powerstroke that I drove for 6 years and put 75k miles on it.

First, a general thought.  Most of the diesels I list below I have chosen for their durability and low maintenance costs.  Any of them will probably run for 300k miles without ever needing anything but maintenance.  Having said that, the rest of the truck that surrounds the engine is another story.  It is no different from any other vehicle, and after 300k you might have a rusted frame, electrical issues, suspension issues, etc.

One other general thought.  If you haven't owned a larger-displacement diesel like these trucks have, don't get caught up with HP and TQ numbers.  The 6.5L chevy I had was rated at 180hp and around 400 lb-ft of torque.  That doesn't sound special, but diesels tend to make much broader torque curves.  In a gas truck with the same numbers, they only make those numbers immediately surrounding the RPMs of their peaks.  With diesel, they tend to make that same amount of output over a much broader range of RPMs.  Like I had mentioned before.  My 6.5L could tow 10k on any grade it encountered and never fall below the speed limit.

6.5L TD (chevy/GMC, late 1992-1999).  Indirect injection means a bit higher compression than many diesels, but that really helps at the pump.  Great MPGs in the low-mid 20s.  Detroit design, crazy bulletproof.  It is advised to relocate the computer from the side of the engine to the inner fender to prevent heat from eventually cooking it.  Most of them are going to be really beat at this point, but if you find a low-mileage example, chances are it won't command a huge price with the number of more modern diesels making monster power numbers.  People dismiss them, but they are great diesels IMO.  The truck and transmission that surround the engine are reliable as well.

7.3L Powerstroke (94.5 - 03 Ford).  Very similar to the 6.5 TD, but direct injection.  Modest power outputs in the 215-265 hp range, but mountains of torque.  Trucks tend to rust relatively quickly, but the transmissions are fairly bulletproof at stock power levels.  The TC likes to develop a shudder during lockup which can be nursed along for about 30k miles with an additive called "shudder fix."  Starting with the 99 trucks (the newer body style) they got an intercooler which is only really a benefit if you are planning modifications.  The downside to the newer trucks is the sloped windshield and firewall making maintenance and repairs a bit less comfy.

6.0L Powerstroke (04-07 Ford).  The 6.0L has issues - namely EGR cooler and oil cooler.  They are expensive and difficult to fix (called bulletproofing), but once fixed they are a great diesel.  Find one that is bulletproofed (and can provide receipts) and it is a good bet since its reputation keeps values a little lower.

LB7 Duramax (late 99-04 chevy/gmc).  Wonderful engines that had injector issues.  There was an extended warranty added to those trucks, but it has long since expired.  The fix was new/improved injectors that were an expensive and difficult repair.  If you find one that has already been repaired (or one that needs injectors and negotiate accordingly), they are fantasmic.  I have an 04 with 30-over injectors, a lift pump, intake, exhaust, 5-position chip, and a couple other mods that puts 938 ft-lbs to the wheels on a stock Allison transmission.  It has 148k miles of hard towing abuse and it just won't quit.

LLY/LBZ Duramax (05-07).  These two engine codes are very similar, but they got funky with which code went with a certain transmission or vehicle.  Somewhere in these years the trucks went to a 6-speed version of the Allison trans.  The 6-speed is pretty much the same trans, but what I find is that the programming of the 6 speed makes it a much nicer unit over the earlier 5-speed.

LMM Duramax (Late 07-2010).  Also a fantastic diesel, but they came with a DPF that royally kills MPG.  It is also highly unlikely you'll find one in your budget.

12v Cummins (89-98.5 Dodge).  Early versions (up through 93 I think) used a VE pump and were pretty low output.  They would run forever... VERY SLOWLY.  The second version of the 12v used a P7100 pump that was not super powerful, but ridiculously easy to modify with a screwdriver for bigger power.  It was all mechanical, and this was the engine that really put reliable diesels on the map.  The biggest downside to the truck was the transmissions Dodge used.  The other manufacturers (with a few exceptions) did clean-slate designs and built new transmissions. Dodge kept re-hashing versions of the A518... which was an OD version of the 727... which has been around since the early 60s.  A518 - 46RE, 47RE, 48RE.... are all basically band-aid patched 1960s-based transmissions that were just too small for the torque and vibes from the Cummins.  The 48E finally got things under control... as long as you resisted the urge to modify power.

24v Cummins (99-02 Dodge).  Late 1998, they went to a 24-valve design with electronic controls.  Still fantastic and darn near bulletproof, but the VP injector pump was a common failure point.  If they starved for fuel for even a very short period of time, the lack of lubrication killed them.  The solution for better reliability is a good air-separating fuel lift pump.

My dream truck is an F250 shell (ergonomics, assembly quality, ride quality) with an Allison transmission (very strong and fantastic) with a Cummins 12v/P7100 (bulletproof, easy to modify, all mechanical for simplicity).  I've actually seen this combination done before, but how much money did they spend putting a Dodge engine and a Chevy transmission in a Ford truck?

Curtis
Curtis UltimaDork
8/20/19 5:24 p.m.

Oh... Edit.  LB7 Dmax = traditional turbo, but well matched.  LBZ/LLY and later had variable nozzle turbos which only really helps for a wider variety of modifications.

Anything with "Cummins" on it in the states seems to add 30% to the asking price.  IMO, they're great... but not that much better, especially considering the condition of the dodge truck likely surrounding it.

759NRNG
759NRNG UltraDork
8/20/19 7:25 p.m.

Not to hijack.....ok just a little, but thank you Curtis for your insight to these beasts and I have the issue of 'Diesel ????bla bla bla' that shows the LB7 injector redo.....a bit tedious no doubt, but probably well worth the $$$$'s...when you look at 300hp/550lbft at 1800rpm ....ohellyeah

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