I just bought a GR86, and had its first track evening with just 90 miles on the odometer. Handling is great, and I cant wait until I've got more miles on it so that I can use more than 4000rpm and use full throttle. Very happy so far
I just bought a GR86, and had its first track evening with just 90 miles on the odometer. Handling is great, and I cant wait until I've got more miles on it so that I can use more than 4000rpm and use full throttle. Very happy so far
Keith Tanner said:In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
I specified NDs for a reason :) They're not following the usual trend, especially in Europe. I'll post the numbers later when I'm not on my phone.
A few interesting things here. The NC (2005-15) followed the predictable drop. The ND (which first showed up in 2015) has had much stronger staying power. The peak of the NC was more than 3x the nadir. The worst ND sales year (2022) was still more than half of the best. And sales even went UP in the US in 2020 despite Covid.
I do get the impression that Mazda is selling as many Miatas in the US as they're willing to ship. They are not thick on the lots, even this year.
stan said:Sorry to get a bit off topic, but only 5300 Camaros YTD?
Production ended in December. They're just selling off inventory now.
Regarding fuel economy, I suspect most owners especially of NDs don't put them through a lot of miles. Rather than worry about the MPG, I kind of wonder why either engine need 91 octane. Eg. The old GM 3.6l made more HP and torque per liter on 87 than the ND 2.0 or BRZ 2.4l do on 91. I know it's not fair to compare to turbo engines but plenty of mundane cars engines do too.
Snrub said:Regarding fuel economy, I suspect most owners especially of NDs don't put them through a lot of miles. Rather than worry about the MPG, I kind of wonder why either engine need 91 octane. Eg. The old GM 3.6l made more HP and torque per liter on 87 than the ND 2.0 or BRZ 2.4l do on 91. I know it's not fair to compare to turbo engines but plenty of mundane cars engines do too.
Fuel economy is a part of it. Regulations (CAFE, etc) place a high premium on fuel efficiency and while we think of higher octane as being "more power, same fuel", you can turn that around and have "same power, less fuel".
Mazda put a lot of emphasis on efficiency with the ND. The Skyactiv engine has a compression ratio of something like 14:1, the highest of any production car. And they meet emission targets an old GM engine can only dream of.
What Keith said. I get woozy at the price on the pump for 93. Then I look at how few gallons i put in (not like my E350) and how far I travel, and i calm down a bit. Plus: you pay to play,
ND has a 13:1 CR, same as the 2.0l in the Corolla. The Corolla makes the same torque, but only 169hp at 6600rpm vs. 181hp at 7000 rpm for the ND. We won't compare the fuel economy. How many of those 12hp is the 91 octane really responsible for?
I'm not trying to criticize the ND and I really like the ND2+ engine. I'd have one in my driveway if I could.
I was cycling in the country today and I just started coming down a hill and had a great view from somewhat above of a ND going through a hilly section with some curves. It's a beautiful day and the sun hit the soul red paint just right. God it's a gorgeous car.
We’ve had both pass through here recently–an MX-5 Club and a BRZ tS. Both scratch a similar itch, and you can argue it all comes down to a preference of hardtop or convertible.
In reply to David S. Wallens :
To me the factor that steered me away from the ND and toward the Toyobaru was practicality. A Toyobaru can carry 2-3 passengers and has a decent-sized trunk, or you can drop the rear seats and have a huge cargo bed in the back. The Miata has just one passenger seat and a tiny trunk.
Its not surprising the twins sold more. Its a more practical car. Ongoing financial pressure dictates the vast majority of people can't have a dedicated sports car. For people looking for the lightweight RWD experience and still need a semi-practical car the twins are a clear choice.
After decades of Miata ownership, my heart sank the first time when I sat in the passenger side of an ND1. I didn't realize how compromised space over there had become compared to the NA/NB. I wouldn't subject anyone I cared about to a day trip on that side of the car.
So my choice would be the Twins these days...and then I'd have to figure out what to do about that horrible drone from the motor/piped in sound.
I'm up to 36,000 miles on my 2021 ND. I only feed it 91 (unless I happen to by Costco where they only have 93). I'm averaging 35.4 MPG lifetime.
glyn ellis said:I just bought a GR86, and had its first track evening with just 90 miles on the odometer. Handling is great, and I cant wait until I've got more miles on it so that I can use more than 4000rpm and use full throttle. Very happy so far
<- this = send it personified...
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Snrub said:Regarding fuel economy, I suspect most owners especially of NDs don't put them through a lot of miles. Rather than worry about the MPG, I kind of wonder why either engine need 91 octane. Eg. The old GM 3.6l made more HP and torque per liter on 87 than the ND 2.0 or BRZ 2.4l do on 91. I know it's not fair to compare to turbo engines but plenty of mundane cars engines do too.
Fuel economy is a part of it. Regulations (CAFE, etc) place a high premium on fuel efficiency and while we think of higher octane as being "more power, same fuel", you can turn that around and have "same power, less fuel".
Higher octane actually has a lower power density. However, when a vehicle has a high compression ratio, something needs to be done to stop knock. Thus the NEED for a fuel with a higher resistance to self ignite.
In other words, lower octane makes more power IF the engine can run it without pre-ignition.
I realize this is a bit off topic... sorry for the threadjack!
That doesn't surprise me too much, the GR offers hatchback utility and a fold-down rear seat for extra space. The ability to haul 4 tires and a roof make it the more attractive option for Autocross and Track Use for a lot of people.
If it were up to me, I would go Miata in light STR trim with a Leroy Engineering trailer for tires. (OK, that's not an ND, but you get the idea) . Drop-top sports car for Sunday drives, or take it to the AutoX when you want.
A note regarding the BRZ/GR thing, if it's anything like the 1st gen, Subaru intentionally made less BRZ's. It was a part of some sales agreement.
For the 2nd gens, I actually wanted the highlighter blue GR86. But Toyota wouldn't let you custom order. You just told the dealer what you wanted, got in line, and hoped they got an allocation for exactly what you wanted. But the Toyota dealers were adding a bunch of BS you couldn't decline and then putting big markups on top of that.
So I went to Subaru, checked exactly what I wanted ('23 BRZ Limited, Manual with the STi short shifter, Red) and put down a $1k deposit and it arrived just more than 4 months later. It actually would have arrived about 3 weeks sooner (It arrived Sept 2nd 2022) but there were no truck drivers to bring it from the rail head. My particular dealer had 38 cars sitting there waiting to be picked up.
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