Is the Miata still the answer for a track rat in 2021?

I built a 90 NA in 2006 for SM.  It had 196k miles on it at the time.  The motor made 112.8hp at the wheels after the Springfield Dyno exhaust and self-made intake tube with AutoZone cone filter.  A really well built 1.6L was making 120 to the ground.  In 60 car regional fields at Sebring, I had a few top three finishes.

And then the NB’s came.  Even with the inlet restrictor, they are a more forgiving car because of their torque advantage.  The 1.6 can still be competitive, and because of the air intake, they are better on the top end than the 1.8’s, but for the tracks you’ll be running there, the NB is probably the way to go.

In reply to Driven5 :

It depends really on what you want out of a race car.  If calling a JaguarXJS  a big Miata offends you, would you be more comfortable with calling it a sophisticated Corvette/Camaro? 
    It uses Camaro size tires and those used are extremely affordable.  Switch to Wilwood calipers and pads last longer and can be priced with Miata pads. 
    Sway bars and springs are junkyard items. 
    But those bigger cars Mustangs,Camaro's,  Corvettes, and Jaguars have their own appeal.    Acceleration and speed is a whole bunch more.   While  you do lose some of that nimbleness the Miata offers. That's the result of greater speed more than anything.  
Think of what it would cost to get a Miata to the speed a Jag is capable of in nearly stock form.  Now add in the price savings of buy in cost of a JaguarXJS to the buy in of a decent Miata.  
     If I were looking for another My budget would be $500 and I'd only go to $1000 for something really special.  Granted I'm a tite wad but I'll bet a few change hands this week in that neighborhood. Probably nothing on a car lot but I don't shop there.  

All true, but race cars make great track day cars too. Due to time constraints I can only race 3-4 times a year but I can get to a track day once a month.  It's as easy as hooking up the trailer and showing up. 

If I were to go back to the beginning, when I had the first inclination that someday I wanted to race, the first thing I would buy is a good pickup. Having everything in a trailer and ready to go makes everything about the hobby so much easier. 

In reply to Tom1200 :

Thanks for the detailed cost breakdown, that's super helpful. I don't really mind the increased dollar/track time if it means I get to race. 

How often do you do any major suspension/engine work, if ever?

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

If I were to go back to the beginning, when I had the first inclination that someday I wanted to race, the first thing I would buy is a good pickup. Having everything in a trailer and ready to go makes everything about the hobby so much easier. 

Can I track a V6 S10? Might be a decent balance between track days now and towing in the future, but idk if pickups would be allowed

In reply to sedrat :

Most clubs no, an S10 won't be allowed. Maybe track days but not on wheel to wheel.  
   As for breakdowns. My Black Jack raced from the late 70's until I sold it about 2010 without a single breakdown. Engines,  trans, suspension brakes etc.  my MG spun a rod bearing but  another club member Dr. Bob Bodine  unloaded his Ferrari GTO ( yes, a real multi million dollar one), and loaded my MG on his trailer.  It's nice to have friends. 
      That's the great thing about racing. The friends you make.   
   Wheel to wheel with older Vintage and historic cars. You get to know each other very well since no one wants to damage another car but we all want to race, really race.  

In reply to sedrat :

I only raced my Miata for  2 seasons; it actually spun a rod bearing right after I got it but the motor had 5 seasons of national level competition on it, including the RunOffs. I knew the motor was getting really tired but decided to do one more race.....oops.    

I bought a used short block for $500 and did 8 races, 10 track days, 10 rally-crosses and about a dozen auto-crosses before retiring it as a race car.  I continued to use it as a daily driver for 2 more years and it was still running strong when I sold it.

I would expect to get at least 30 race weekends out of a mildly tuned Miata engine.

I didn't need to do anything to the suspension beyond keeping it aligned.  I got around 6 weekends out of the race pads. I used street pads for a couple of events without issue just to see if they'd work. The street pads lasted longer than the race pads but didn't grip as well.

I've raced my Datsun for 32 years now: My hotted up street motor will do about 60 weekends and my moderately built race motor will do around 30 race weekends.  The brakes on my car are overkill, Z car brakes on a 1600lb car, and pads will last me 10 seasons. I put fresh dampers / shocks on it about every 60 weekends.

If you're not trying to win the Runoffs and or don't care about being ultra competitive, you can race pretty cheaply. Frankly most new drivers, even with a winning car, aren't going to be very competitive.  Build or buy a solid reliable car and go have fun.

I think with patience you can find an NB with most/all of the track-needed parts for your budget, at least in the SouthEast.  I saw a few of them in my track day car shopping.  I was moving up from NB to E36 M3...still not sure it's a major upgrade.

I can't believe someone would recommend a V12 Jaguar as a budget reliable track day car.  Only on GRM.

I went back and re-read the OP, and I've changed my opinion a little.  Even though your end goal is to race, you've got a long way to go before you're ready.  Main priority is seat time, lots of it.  To get a fully prepped race car you really need a trailer, and to tow a trailer you really need a truck or big SUV.  Too big a jump from where you're currently at.  The vast majority of race cars are going to be manual transmission/RWD, so that is what you should look for. 

So my answer is still the Answer, but this is what I would do.  Find an early 1.6L car that has good compression and is rust-free, they're still cheaper than the 1.8's.  Do all the basic maintenance stuff and put a roll bar in it.  Drive the wheels off of it at the track, it won't need much more than tires and brake pads. Don't be tempted to throw money at other stuff you don't need, a slow car will make you a faster driver. At some point maybe drop in a race bucket and six point harness, it helps more than you think.  In the meantime save as much as you can for a truck.  When it comes time to sell the Miata, if you put the work into it you'll probably sell it for more than you paid.  Then go find a fully built race car.

MattGent said:

I think with patience you can find an NB with most/all of the track-needed parts for your budget, at least in the SouthEast.  I saw a few of them in my track day car shopping.  I was moving up from NB to E36 M3...still not sure it's a major upgrade.

I can't believe someone would recommend a V12 Jaguar as a budget reliable track day car.  Only on GRM.

As I said if a V12 is too complex for you. Jaguar made a 4.0 liter all aluminum six cylinder with 4 valves per cylinder.  Nearly as fast as the V12.  
 The advantage is the Jaguar is its likely condition and and low price.  
 I raced my Jag for 30+ years without a breakdown. They are that well built. Until you have the pieces and parts in your hand and see with your own eyes you will doubt my claims. Yet my record is available for confirmation. 
Price wise you can find mechanically sound  rust free Jag for around $1000 or so. What price is a similar Miata?  

This strikes me as a reasonable deal:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/201850683336583/permalink/1873561779498790/?sale_post_id=1873561779498790

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

That's a pretty good deal if the car is as represented.  

Way in left field, but Locosts make great track mules if they're well built. I flogged mine for three years on the same set of Avon slicks. The only real caveat is that I'd add some side impact protection, and you're pretty well screwed if it rains.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Just make sure you talk to the tech inspectors first and see what their requirements are to let a Locost or Seven on the track.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

I suspect that a Locost in wheel to wheel would be really vulnerable. Bigger cars like Mustang, Camaro's, and Jaguars might not even see you. Plus side impact would be lethal 

 That's a pity because it's one-off the best values for your money. 

frenchyd said:

MattGent said:

I think with patience you can find an NB with most/all of the track-needed parts for your budget, at least in the SouthEast.  I saw a few of them in my track day car shopping.  I was moving up from NB to E36 M3...still not sure it's a major upgrade.

I can't believe someone would recommend a V12 Jaguar as a budget reliable track day car.  Only on GRM.

As I said if a V12 is too complex for you. Jaguar made a 4.0 liter all aluminum six cylinder with 4 valves per cylinder.  Nearly as fast as the V12.  
 The advantage is the Jaguar is its likely condition and and low price.  
 I raced my Jag for 30+ years without a breakdown. They are that well built. Until you have the pieces and parts in your hand and see with your own eyes you will doubt my claims. Yet my record is available for confirmation. 
Price wise you can find mechanically sound  rust free Jag for around $1000 or so. What price is a similar Miata?  

I've watched some of the YouTube vids you speak of. Amazing. 
what year range do you recommend?

In reply to DrBoost :

If you are thinking of a 6 cylinder go for 1992 and later. To get a manual transmission likely you'll need to go to England and shop the breakers ( what they call a junk yard ) 

 If you are thinking of a V12 go for 3/4 of 1977-1980.  Or 1993-4 Both of those can easily swap an American manual transmission on. The earlier one will also accept the carbs from 1971-1974 which are extremely easy to convert to E85.  The simple carbs are actually bigger than a Holley Dominator. ( but not as complex ) eliminate the complexity of the EFI  and make more power.  I suspect result in more power than a set of Weber's. 
  Now you can use anyJaguarXJS   From 3/4 of 1977  to 1996 to do an easy  trans swap  but if you stay with the stock EFI you'll need to send the the ECM into AJ6 racing. To fatten the mixture up. ( it doesn't have an EPROM chip so resisters/capacitors have to be soldered off and on the boards).  You should do that to the 6 cylinder too. 
     From 1975-3/4 of 1977 there are kits available  to put a manual transmission on but they are silly expensive.  Also anything past 3/4 of 1977 has a GM 400 turbo transmission. It's a simple mater to pull the valve body and convert it to a manual shift.  You'll need to move the lever from low, 2nd, & high. But it won't shift too soon. Which the stock one does. 

I took a NC to the track for the first time a couple weeks ago and wonder why I didn't switch from my '90 for track duty sooner. It does everything well with the bonus of not being the slowest thing out there on the straights. Time will tell if it proves to be as reliable and easy on consumables as the '90, but after the first taste I'm looking forward to doing a bunch more in the NC.

sedrat said:

The more I think about it, driving a race car to the track doesn't seem like a completely terrible idea. I'm close enough to the tracks (and young enough) that I think I could deal with the harshness. I guess I just vastly overestimated the running costs for racing. $650-700/weekend is barely more than a weekend of track days, and I'd honestly be fine paying double that. 

Anything I should be scared off by, besides "don't crash your ride home?"

And I've thought about karting, but part of the appeal for me is racing on the big tracks so that's mostly a non-starter. 

No, it's a terrible idea. A properly caged race car is NOT safe to drive on the street. Even SFI padding is designed around a helmeted head. 

Buy a prepped NC, like I just sold, and sell it once you're ready to start W2W.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

The guy who tracked mine was a younger and stupider version of myself. But you'll recall that I mentioned adding side impact protection. Tons of them get raced in the UK with a cage plus side bars. As an aside, a friend recently brought his Locost to a NASA track day event without side impact protection. They would let him drive, but none of the instructors were willing to ride with him!

OP: I don't want another project

GRM: here's a 40yr old British car that weighs 4000lbs and only needs a transmission swap (sourced internationally) and solder EFI parts / carb swap / E85 conversion and has next to zero aftermarket support in this country

It may well be a cool car, and I like odd-ball performance cars, but it isn't at all what OP asked for.

https://youtu.be/M9I7GWllPFY

There are enough track-prepped Miata of each generation that one will pop up for sale in that price range eventually.

Yeah I don't think I really want a Jag for this lol. I think I'm just going to wait around until I see a clean-ish Miata of any gen, even if I have to splurge a bit. Throw a rollbar on if it needs one, maybe a seat, and call that good. Really, my only self-imposed time constraint is being able to get a day in at Auto Club before NASCAR bulldozes it. 

iRacing, and maybe a Lucky Dog or Chump Car enduro will have to do for my racing fix for now. Or a supermoto. Out of left field for this thread, but the race series is starting back up soon and looks like the closest thing around to Euro-style rallycross. I'm a little tempted

My answer is what I did about 5 years ago.

I bought someone's old 1.6L Spec Miata that had been sitting for 5 or 6 years.  Flushed the brake lines, changed the tires and went racing.  I ran two full SCCA race weekend's with the car totally how I bought it.  It was about $7,000 and came with a title, so I was able to get a Michigan historic plate for it so I could drive to and from events if I needed to (I ended up getting a trailer, but that was my original plan).

It had the 4.3 Torsen 1.8 swap already installed; full roll cage and Bilstein coil overs; hard top; it looked decent per my wife :)

I'm never selling it and it's been totally awesome fun.

In reply to sedrat :

Depending how tall in the torso you are, and how strict the club(s) you run with are on the 'broomstick test', the soft-top NC with Blackbird bar will give you the best chance to 'pass' with a functional top, as well as have better bar-head clearance on the street. The NA/NB require more of a direct tradeoff of head clearance vs bar height. For me, that's actually a bigger reason to go NC over NA/NB than the performance.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

I doubt anybody with a caged Locost would have an issue getting through tech. My comment wasn't meant to dismiss the idea of a Locost or Seven, but mainly to check that it will fulfill the tech requirements without too many mods before buying the car. Unlike a muppet who looks awfully like me and bought a Maxton Rollerskate before talking to the tech guys and then ended up buying another car for track use.