I know strut tower bars are very good.
But I was examining my mk1 tt and it looks like the strut towers are welded right into the firewall.
So I think the strut bar is redundant.
Im on a big weight savings mission so I would like your opinion
Does it look like the strut mounts are braces by the firewall or is the extra bar really a must?
How much flex does it take to compromise the performance more than the weight savings will give you?
That looks like a situation that isn't leveraged/cantilevered out too far. Take it off and see how it feels. Otherwise you will need to instrument and do a lot of engineering to really tell.
Probably not, the strut towers are tied in to the firewall.
This ain't a 240Z with a four foot long hood and the strut towers flapping in the breeze, after all.
Agreed. The TT shares so much with the Beetle. My friend has a Beetle and the strut towers are under the cowl directly welded to the firewall. I think you have more support than you need.
Suggestion: Take the brace off and tie a string between the strut towers with a sinker in the middle. Clamp a GoPro under the hood and record a run to watch the string. I would bet that the sinker will move left and right more than it moves up and down.
It's probably a handle to use while wrenching back there.
Use a string between the towers and a camera and see if the string sags enough without the brace to make it worthwhile.
My experience with FWD of similar build? The brace was worth the weight. Especially when combined with a proper cage as the rules limited where you could brace, etc.
Hmmm. Ok tough one. Sounds like my thoughts are right. But it might add some extra stiffness.
I'm too lazy to add a camera. I'll just try it by feel and see how it goes.
Likely. Strut braces are really popular for the MINI (even MINI sells one), but like your car, the towers are right against and integrated into the firewall and are already pretty stiff. Years ago a local MINI tuner (who even sells his own brand of brace), told me quietly they are pretty much under-hood candy and don't do much for the car other than make oil filter access a real PITA.
The MINI is a really stiff chassis. Even the convertibles. I remember jacking up the front corner of our old '07 'vert high enough to get both wheels off the ground and the doors still opened without any perceivable binding.
That brace looks totally useless. The firewall is already a very stiff C-channel.
Who put the strut bar there? The factory or is it an aftermarket piece? If the factory put it there then there is likely a good reason for it and I would leave it. Aftermarket with that location might just be bling.
agreed with the overkill. Older cars like the swift (metro) the towers were standalone and needed all their help.
The weight, although low, might have more of an impact on performance than the structural support it provides.
How much does the bar really weigh? How much have you worked on weight loss on yourself?
We focus so much on our cars, but how much do we do ourselves?
Im guilty, too. But, damnit, Im working/trying now.
hybridmomentspass said:How much does the bar really weigh? How much have you worked on weight loss on yourself?
We focus so much on our cars, but how much do we do ourselves?
Im guilty, too. But, damnit, Im working/trying now.
VWAG did not install it on any A4 chassis I've seen, that is aftermarket me-too-ism.
Any thousandths of an inch addition in strut tower stiffness will be lost in the noise of the tenths of an inch difference in the cup and ball strut top mechanism.
Any thousandths of an inch addition in strut tower stiffness will be lost in the noise of the tenths of an inch difference in the cup and ball strut top mechanism.
Can you explain that a little better?
Also the strut bar I have is in fact an oem piece. Mk1 Audi tt has the same chassis as all Mk4 vw. But Audi added the strut bar as the tt is a sports car.
I could feel the difference on my Mk2/Corrado's, as well as my E36 M3 and 951. My E46 M3 came with one from the factory. I haven't put one on a car since then...
If that's a factory piece, I'd imagine that it does provide *some* benefit. An auto manufacturer isn't going to go to the trouble to design, fabricate, test, and install something like that on a whim or to just look cool to the handful of folks that might actually open the hood.
In reply to CLH :
you sure about that? They put a lot of effort into taking the mk4 vw engine bay, towards the mk1 audi tt engine bay.
Keep in my the tt is made on the exact same golf platform, but it is made by audi, not volkswagen.
So it is a luxury brand, sold to luxury customers.
There are TONS of little changes that make the car better.
But I could definitely see the strut brace being added to attract "sporty minded" shoppers.
Look at the engine bay comparison. There is a lot of "dress up" going on there. All those plastic covers are completely unnecessary. I'm sure the strut bar could have been a "teaser" piece as well.
regardless, though, i'll admit you're probably still right.
i even recall noticing more flex in the front when i took mine off
CLH said:If that's a factory piece, I'd imagine that it does provide *some* benefit. An auto manufacturer isn't going to go to the trouble to design, fabricate, test, and install something like that on a whim or to just look cool to the handful of folks that might actually open the hood.
Marketing is a thing. :) I mean, most cars don't actually need 22 inch wheels either.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:CLH said:If that's a factory piece, I'd imagine that it does provide *some* benefit. An auto manufacturer isn't going to go to the trouble to design, fabricate, test, and install something like that on a whim or to just look cool to the handful of folks that might actually open the hood.
Marketing is a thing. :) I mean, most cars don't actually need 22 inch wheels either
Yeah, true. But 22" wheels are visible.
That strut brace just doesn't have the look of a party piece.
In reply to CLH :
Keep in mind this is a 20 year old car.
Those engine bay covers and strut bar all go together to give the engin bay a better look. In 2000 that was pretty fancy for under the hood
why not loosen one side a little bit and dab a tiny bit of paint on either side of the nuts and go for a spirited ride and over some bumps. Come back and see if the paint was disturbed or not.
IMHO if the factory put it there...its for a reason, sometimes minor, sometimes overkill.
In reply to malibuguy :
Great idea. That's exactly what I needed. I'm definitely going to try that out.
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