There's a corkscrew on-ramp on my daily commute that is begging for this car on skinny tires. Decreasing radius turn connecting two 55mph four lanes. At the hours I travel it you'd have plenty of room coming off the ramp in a 4 wheel slide.
how does room in the cockpit compare to an NB driver's seat? I might have to get lipo before I buy one...
So I watched the video to hear what the original sounded like, and I think one of the newer crossplane Yamaha R1 engines would go perfectly in this if you want a similar sound. And if you want 8 cylinders put two of them in there.
TurnerX19 said:No one should loose sight of the fact that street registration varies dramatically from state to state here in the USA. Any state that permits fenderless street rods should have a means to register this with just lighting and a wiper.
From direct experience dealing with the State Patrol while getting my Exocet registered in Ohio, the requirements here include a full compliment of lighting (including backup lights, and a rear license plate light), a windshield that you look through (not over) made from laminated safety glass, a wiper for the windshield (can be manually operated), and (the killer) bumpers, front and rear. One way around all that mess is to legally register the car in a more lax state (Indiana, Kentucky both come to mind) then later register it in Ohio. No State Patrol inspection, just a visual VIN check (what is on the out of state title vs. what is on the vehicle itself), and you're good to go.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Perhaps he should license it to the folks who make the Exocet. They already improved upon Stiggy's design. If I were Ant, I might rather get a royalty on someone else building the kit than make them myself, dealing with Customs, marketing, taxes, et cetera.
That would be a fantastic idea! It's been a while, but the last time I talked with Kevin Patrick at Exomotive, he was considering expanding the lineup.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I think that SCCA typically doesn't accept cycle fenders as fenders. So, it ends up being a formula car. As such, the roll hoop won't meet SCCA requirements. In particular, they require two forward facing braces that are attached within 6 inches of the top of the roll hoop. They'll also require a front hoop that is as high as the top of the steering wheel with its own forward bracing that goes to the front bulkhead.
There may be other groups that would allow it but I would want to check that out before I bought one. It might end up being a toy that you have a hard time finding a place to play with it. Which would be a shame because it looks like a ton of fun.
einy (Forum Supporter) said:Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Perhaps he should license it to the folks who make the Exocet. They already improved upon Stiggy's design. If I were Ant, I might rather get a royalty on someone else building the kit than make them myself, dealing with Customs, marketing, taxes, et cetera.
That would be a fantastic idea! It's been a while, but the last time I talked with Kevin Patrick at Exomotive, he was considering expanding the lineup.
Exactly- they also did extensive CAD work on the chassis, didn't they? That would be a good idea, as suggested by a few other posters.
I like it and hope that Ant does well with it. I've had a passion for "kit" cars and other unique cars for a long time. I've even sold some kits for some of the cars that I've built. I just picked up an old kit. (Manta Mirage) I think that it might be the last one that I build as I'm having a hard time (health reasons) of working much in the shop.
I have thought about introducing Art to Kevin. I'm not sure Kevin has the in-house capabilities to do the design work on another frame, though. It's possible this one is better documented than the original Exocet, I think it's certainly better designed even if it has room for improvement. I don't know who actually drew it.
The frame gets an outer skin of aluminum panels, similar to the way a Westfield is built. Then a fiberglass body goes over top of that. There's some pretty nice ducting for the radiator in the prototype as well. Let me see what other pics I can share. I think the upcoming build videos will answer a lot of questions.
It's funny how the US market views cars like this. In the UK, the Exocet was a cute way to use a basically free MOT failure MX-5 as an elemental sports car that looked a bit like an Atom. Then a race series popped up, which happens with surprising regularity in the UK. When it came to the US, it was viewed as a balls-out performance car and they started getting fat tires, special suspension tuning and a turbo four is usually considered the absolute minimum required power level. I can see the same viewpoint on this car here as well in comments. Instead of it being a way to have a lookalike of one of the most successful GP cars without spending several million dollars, it's about hundreds of horsepowers and Hoosier slicks and fake exhaust pipes. Different world.
As promised, the adapter for the knock-off wire wheels. And a pretty hilarious way to make your discs look like old school drums. And those are definitely GAZ coilovers on the MG based car.
I'm sensing Challenge sub-class...
so what inline 6 is available? A car like this is screaming for something more sonorous than a 4 cyl miata engine
That. Is. Beautiful.
I've wanted to build a lotus 49ish car for a long time now but been way too poor. If I sell off a few cars this could quell that itch...
stroker said:I'm sensing Challenge sub-class...
I'm IN!! I've been tossing build ideas like this around with some buddies for a while. I'm sure many others have too. This would be a super sick sub-class, but probably need 2 years notice on it.
stroker said:I'm sensing Challenge sub-class...
That would have to be the $20000 Challenge though, because that's what I expect to be close to the minimum of what a finished car would cost if you build it yourself.
bobzilla said:so what inline 6 is available? A car like this is screaming for something more sonorous than a 4 cyl miata engine
Jaguar. They even have the vintage look.
bobzilla said:so what inline 6 is available? A car like this is screaming for something more sonorous than a 4 cyl miata engine
I keep thinking BMW as the obvious answer here. It's still not going to sound right - the originals sounded completely insane - but it won't sound like a four. A Jaguar six would look right.
However, this is a 4 cylinder Miata engine in a 1200 lb car: brake_test_flyby_2.m4a
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Thanks Kieth very cool, I like the faux drums............I think they are rediculous but I also think they are cool.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I think the difference between the UK and the US is it seems to be much easier to get a kit registered in the UK. In the US it is very much State-specific and even in the states where it's possible, usually not a simple process. So anyone willing to get through the effort to build and register a kit in the US will consider a turbo upgrade for more power to be a relatively minor task within the overall project.
In general, I agree with the sentiment that as cool as this kit is, there needs to be some way to actually use it in the US. If not as a street car, then at least as an autocross toy. And with that in mind, any kit brought into the US should probably have an eye towards SCCA rules compliance. Maybe an email to someone that basically says, "we are considering importation of this kit. What does it need to be legal in whatever autocross class?" Then after their input you can determine if the changes required will still allow for an economically viable product.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I keep thinking the 2.5 Straight six in the Daewookis that were brought over. I think they only made 165hp but it should sound better
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
I think the difference between the UK and the US is it seems to be much easier to get a kit registered in the UK. In the US it is very much State-specific and even in the states where it's possible, usually not a simple process. So anyone willing to get through the effort to build and register a kit in the US will consider a turbo upgrade for more power to be a relatively minor task within the overall project.
It got a lot harder to register a kit car in the UK thanks to the SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) process, but it's still a lot easier than in other parts of Europe. I don't think it's that much harder to register a kit car in the states I've lived in over here (NV and WV), but like in the UK you have to read the regulations first.
I think, as you said the issue in the US is simply because we have at least 50 differing regulations (and probably something in PR that mandates that a kit car has to have a rotary in it or something). In a sense that would be the case if you built a kit car in the UK with an eye on registering it in the EU, back when they were part of that club.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
I think the difference between the UK and the US is it seems to be much easier to get a kit registered in the UK. In the US it is very much State-specific and even in the states where it's possible, usually not a simple process. So anyone willing to get through the effort to build and register a kit in the US will consider a turbo upgrade for more power to be a relatively minor task within the overall project.
In general, I agree with the sentiment that as cool as this kit is, there needs to be some way to actually use it in the US. If not as a street car, then at least as an autocross toy. And with that in mind, any kit brought into the US should probably have an eye towards SCCA rules compliance. Maybe an email to someone that basically says, "we are considering importation of this kit. What does it need to be legal in whatever autocross class?" Then after their input you can determine if the changes required will still allow for an economically viable product.
It's not really any easier in the UK, I don't think. It's that people in the US seem to spend more time talking about how hard it is :) The SB100 exemption in CA is an example. Based on talking to people who have done it, it's not really that difficult. But the legends around it, good lord. We've managed to get a supercharged V8 Exocet through registration in Massachusetts 100% legally. You just have to read the regs.
It's never going to be competitive in autox, so I don't see the value in exploring the SCCA classing. A turbo upgrade would make completely the wrong sound and mess up the potential to do a decently legitimate looking exhaust, but the fact that so many people think that's the first step is telling.
The UK MX-5 Owner's Club has put out a much better writeup about the car: https://mx5oc.co.uk/2020/12/23/introducing-the-tipo-184-mx-5-based-classic-race-car/
Also, I've been thinking about where this car sits. It's almost a replica, but of course it's got some stamped steel Miata bits on mild display. Opening the hood reveals the fake exhaust pipes. So it's cheap fantasy fulfillment. But you'll probably want to make it look as right as possible.
Then I realized it's almost a direct analog to the Mustang-based Factory Five Roadster. Look at it that way and it kinda works.
Keith Tanner said:It's funny how the US market views cars like this. In the UK, the Exocet was a cute way to use a basically free MOT failure MX-5 as an elemental sports car that looked a bit like an Atom. Then a race series popped up, which happens with surprising regularity in the UK. When it came to the US, it was viewed as a balls-out performance car and they started getting fat tires, special suspension tuning and a turbo four is usually considered the absolute minimum required power level. I can see the same viewpoint on this car here as well in comments. Instead of it being a way to have a lookalike of one of the most successful GP cars without spending several million dollars, it's about hundreds of horsepowers and Hoosier slicks and fake exhaust pipes. Different world.
I think that's because the typical american doesn't have any idea what a 1300-1500 ln car with 100/125/150 hp feels like. Other then Miatas everything MOST people have experience with is either a 2500lb FWD with 100-120 hp that feels slow, or a 3000-3500 lb car that doesnt feel sporting unless it has 250+ HP. They assume that the HP is what makes the speed.
People don't have access to light moderate HP cars in America. All the 1950's - 1980 British classics with 60-70 HP and 1500lbs are classics and most people will never drive one. Those cars were amazing and coming from a stock MG midget at 55 screening HP in 1600lbs I knew what to expect out of the rotary MG at 170whp 1600lbs.
Comming from my frame of reference I would not want to own this with more then 150-170 nice smooth HP, and would likely be more then satisfied with a stock Miata drivetrain. That would be a good amount to have a sporty feeling in the straights but not so much that the car can't be driven in the corners.
I guess I'm in the more UK based mindset. Low horsepower, skinny tires, classic lines, more fun per dollar. At 1300 lbs, a turbo'd or straight six would be well beyond my driving skills and if I wanted that, the Exocet would fill that bill.
Just thinking beyond this kit a bit, from what I can tell, the chassis is pretty simple and if you look at race cars of that era, they all had the same basic design. Wonder if you could do your own body (out of aluminum or fiberglass) to match a different car?
A Cooper T20
Or a Ferrari 166 F2
Maybe a Kurtis Kraft 500A
Ooooh, a Talbot Lago 126 C is beautiful
No offense intended to Ant's original design and inspiration intended.
-Rob
Personally, I am in total love with this thing, but also I recognize some of the inherent limitations of the original design. If you can put fenders and lights on it, it'd be a fun street car. But unless it can get SVRA-legal, your racing options, without modification, will be limited. And since it's a fiberglass body laid on a tube chassis powered by a Miata engine and sprung on Miata suspension, it won't be SVRA legal (those folks are a little...umm....uptight about stuff like this).
So for me, this very much becomes an 'old school cool', but must have some kind of moderate, modern, performance for racing. Since, I won't be able to race against other vintage autos. That said, I still am in love with this. And I want one. It just leapt over everything in terms of future project priorities. Personally, I'll build mine in a bit more 'Locust meets F1/Grand Prix" style. With wider solid wheels, more modern tires, but still no aero, or electronics, etc. As a Hill Climb/Autocross/Time Trial/HDPE car I think it will be absolutely tons of fun.
That said, one doesn't have to get totally crazy - Michelin has a whole 'vintage tire' range made of modern materials that would work well - https://classic.michelin.com/en/Classic-Tyre-range
I totally agree that registering doesn't seem that hard at all. ESPECIALLY if you start with a miata that has a title and plates... But most states have kit car or hot rod laws that make it easy enough, just read and follow the rules.
I will say that I think in general europeans are a lot more focused on style and asthetics and americans are focused on speed and competition. Not that one is better than another.
The best LOOKING cars come from England, Italy, and France. The FASTEST cars come from the USA. Germany is function over form and Asia will make an efficient and reliable copy of anything you want.
You'll need to log in to post.
