Japanese media reporting 86/BRZ is dead

More news involving Toyota partnerships today.

To be fair the FR-S/BRZ/86 has now been in production longer than the original AE86, so that's something. Sign me up for an electric MR2 though!

 https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/29/toyota-86-and-subaru-brz-successor-canceled/

Japanese Nostalgic Car is quoting Japanese sources as saying Toyota and Subaru have parted ways regarding the 86 and that the current car's replacement is off the table. According to JNC, the Japanese magazine Best Car is readying a report that the 86/BRZ successor has been canceled. JNC also considers the fact that in Japan, there will be a four-cylinder, 197-horsepower version of the new Supra, ready to continue where the 86 will leave the market.

Back in 2016 the automaker seemingly confirmed that a replacement for the rear-drive car was under development, but plans can change and with a cheaper Supra version for sale in markets outside the U.S., we have to wonder if the 86 replacement has been shelved. The 86, while balanced, has only received mild enhancements and not a lot of extra power during its near-decade long time on the market, and it isn't such a strong seller that it would necessarily merit the effort of Toyota developing a successor on its own, particularly without the help of a partner like Subaru or BMW.

Is it me,  or do they just not market the car?

I see Camry and Corolla and Tundra ads all the time, none for the 86.

Similarly, lots of "Subaru is love" ads, none with the BRZ.

I haven't seen a Miata commercial in a while, but at least I can remember one. 

I swear, automotive marketing departments are run by corporate soccer mom's who value practicality and 4-doors and "Subaru is love" crap than sporty cars. 

I know they'll never be sales leaders, but dear God, some money can be made on them. 

And lots of new people of all ages at autocross (like the young kid in Phoenix with his nicely done 350z a couple weeks ago, first time out, he loved it) .

Maybe SCCA and NASA should put an add together, get some interest...

This whole cross-breeding of manufacturers strikes me as unnatural, but it's obviously here, so I for one would be quite pleased to see a successor platform shared between BMW and Toyota, upon which Toyota would build a sports car to follow the 86 and BMW would build a true successor to the 2002. This will never happen, of course.

They never tried to sell it. We enthusiasts came and bought it because we are enthusiasts. After the fanbois bought them, who else did they expect to come into the showroom?

Appleseed said:

They never tried to sell it. We enthusiasts came and bought it because we are enthusiasts. After the fanbois bought them, who else did they expect to come into the showroom?

Realistically, who else other than fanboys and people already in the know would buy it? The average person isn't going to put up with its tiny-ish rear seat, small trunk, and slightly buzzy drivetrain. 

NOOOOOOO I really want one, I hope the prices don't climb too quickly.

Subaru wasn't capable of structuring the deal to reward their doing all of the heavy lifting for the niche car development, like Mazda did on the ND with FCA. So they're screwed without Toyota. Now that Subaru already has a depreciated starting point, maybe they're capable of taking an decent but aging platform, and with minimal reinvestment, reinventing it to be better and more desirable (and more profitable) than ever...Like Chrysler has done with the Charger/Challenger.

Or more likely, they'll just 'round file' everything they have already poured into it as a tax write-off, and never mention it again.

Wasn't grounded to the ground = did not sell.

Toyota's marketing has been a mess for years, since 1967 actually. When they couldn't be bothered to market a 2-seat sporty car in America because who would want that?

ShawnG said:

Wasn't grounded to the ground = did not sell.

Toyota's marketing has been a mess for years, since 1967 actually. When they couldn't be bothered to market a 2-seat sporty car in America because who would want that?

And yet, Toyota is one of the most profitable car companies in the world....

alfadriver said:

ShawnG said:

Wasn't grounded to the ground = did not sell.

Toyota's marketing has been a mess for years, since 1967 actually. When they couldn't be bothered to market a 2-seat sporty car in America because who would want that?

And yet, Toyota is one of the most profitable car companies in the world....

Everyone needs a toaster.

Toyota builds great appliances.

I know, I have a Tacoma. A boring little Tacoma.... 

I used to like Toyota's fun cars, a lot. Now, everyone seems to make more fun cars than boring old beige Toyota.

Why does the new Supra look like a BMW M3 Coupe, in a kimono?

Toyota hasn't made a fun car in over 20 years.  They still aren't given that the new Supra is a BMW and made by BMW on the BMW factory line.

Toyota hasn't even been making new models of the stuff they have that does sell well.  The 4Runner and Tacoma use an outdated 6 cylinder and still have an ancient 5 speed automatic tranny. 

I'd consider a 4Runner to replace my GX in 2 years but only if it has a modern drivetrain and updated electronics...

jr02518 said:

Why does the new Supra look like a BMW M3 Coupe, in a kimono?

 

Because its a BMW Z4 underneath.

In reply to docwyte :

The Tacoma uses a atkinson cycle 3.5 now....since it's redesign in 2016...which also included a new 6 speed trans. But you're right about the 4Runner. From what I've heard, the Taco guys miss the old engine. 

docwyte said:

Toyota hasn't made a fun car in over 20 years.  They still aren't given that the new Supra is a BMW and made by BMW on the BMW factory line.

Toyota hasn't even been making new models of the stuff they have that does sell well.  The 4Runner and Tacoma use an outdated 6 cylinder and still have an ancient 5 speed automatic tranny. 

I'd consider a 4Runner to replace my GX in 2 years but only if it has a modern drivetrain and updated electronics...

I was thinking this the other day, but then I remembered that every Lexus is a Toyota, and the LC500 looks like a lot of fun. Not that I've driven one! The new Corolla hatch is supposedly fun too.

But yes, Toyota is profitable because it is the best manufacturing company in the world, not because it designs compelling vehicles. The vast majority want reliable, practical, efficient vehicles and Toyotas have that in spades. In particular, they have maintained the stellar reliability while others (Honda - looking at you) have slipped. 

I once asked a friend at Subaru about BRZ promotion. If you want to help me, he said, find a way to increase Outback production. 

Thats sad, i was considering a BRZ. 

In the end i didnt because i realized that perfomance wise its about the same as my zx2. Obviously newer and with better tech though

Sometimes boring is as much about the owner as it is about the vehicle in question:

David S. Wallens said:

I once asked a friend at Subaru about BRZ promotion. If you want to help me, he said, find a way to increase Outback production. 

The 911 GT3 RS is why I accept the Cayenne.

David,

Please call him back, today, and tell him without a stick as an option in their cars they are toast.  In the real world, above 5000 feet, a Subi with a 5 speed rules.

My first new car, for my growing family was a 1987 GL wagon.  Loved and killed that car.  My wife still talks about it, when it snow's.

Our oldest had an Outback Sport when attending school at Flagstaff, with a stick, never had an issue.

Flatlanders in a CVT, I get it. I, will never pay for one.

David

TGMF said:

In reply to docwyte :

The Tacoma uses a atkinson cycle 3.5 now....since it's redesign in 2016...which also included a new 6 speed trans. But you're right about the 4Runner. From what I've heard, the Taco guys miss the old engine. 

  

The Atkinson cycle motor is a mess, everyone that drives them at more than a toaster level is wanting the old motor back. 

Per my experience with the 6 speed auto... It shifts.... alot, all the time. 

ShawnG said:

alfadriver said:

ShawnG said:

Wasn't grounded to the ground = did not sell.

Toyota's marketing has been a mess for years, since 1967 actually. When they couldn't be bothered to market a 2-seat sporty car in America because who would want that?

And yet, Toyota is one of the most profitable car companies in the world....

Everyone needs a toaster.

Toyota builds great appliances.

I know, I have a Tacoma. A boring little Tacoma.... 

I used to like Toyota's fun cars, a lot. Now, everyone seems to make more fun cars than boring old beige Toyota.

You can't build a car company relying only on cheap sporty cars.  Just not enough people buy them.

Toyota has more than enough money to keep the BRZ going, but sometimes it's hard to see the point.  Especially for Toyota as they are not using that engine anywhere else- it's more of a gift to Subaru.  The Miata has suck around for so long largely because it uses one of their mass produced engines in it.  Honda didn't and the S2000 didn't last long.  GM does with the Vette, and it's going on +60 years, Ford does with the Mustang, and it's going on 55 years.  Heck, the Viper lasted a LONG time using a truck V10.

The engine is the single most expensive part, so sharing it goes a long, long way.

Bummer if true. Another fun car bites the dust.

I was beginning to consider selling my FR-S, but this may convince me to keep it for a while longer.

jr02518 said:

David,

Please call him back, today, and tell him without a stick as an option in their cars they are toast.  In the real world, above 5000 feet, a Subi with a 5 speed rules.

My first new car, for my growing family was a 1987 GL wagon.  Loved and killed that car.  My wife still talks about it, when it snow's.

Our oldest had an Outback Sport when attending school at Flagstaff, with a stick, never had an issue.

Flatlanders in a CVT, I get it. I, will never pay for one.

David

 

I'll pass that along but, to be honest, they're selling units just fine. From a January 3 release on the Subaru media site:

• Subaru sets a new all-time sales record of 680,135 vehicles; up 5 percent over 2017
• Best-ever December – monthly sales increase nearly 2 percent
• Best year ever for Crosstrek and Ascent
• 85 consecutive months of yearly, month-over-month growth