J.G. is right. The Tesla's are coming, the....

At our last local auto cross in November at the AAA Speedway in Fontana I got a ride in the car of the future.  It was one run, one run only.  At speed by some one who compete's on a local basis and can drive.  The car is currently running in "B" Street with the SCCA.  If at the end of the day you are not plugging in your car you are not going to be happy in this class.

Running with the SCCA means rules.  In this class you have to run the stock springs and spring hats. If the car is built to adjust the camber/caster from the factory, you can. The Tesla does not have this adjustability.  You can change the front or rear sway bar, not both.  

So, if some one made adjustable shocks, for compression and rebound, that worked with the stock spring hats, that would be really a plus on these cars.  The stock set-up is not any fun, the mass of the car is profound.  The acceleration is amazing.

The Bridgestone RE-71R's on this car are 19" on stock width rims. The car as delivered runs on 20" rims.  You can run +/- one inch in diameter as long as you are using/staying with the stock offset.  Your tire budget driving one of these cars is going to be steep, if you want to be competitive.  You are going to melt tires, lots of them. 

So, with lots ot tires and the hope that someone will build the shocks, you can be competitive.  Learning to work the mass of the car, is the key.  Over driving the car is easy.  Seat time, as always, is key.

David

There are several cars with electrical acuators changing toe angle on the fly for rear wheel steering (porsche etc). It's conceivable that some cars may begin doing this for camber, but if you look at the sports cars with the most advanced suspensions they are basically super low and super light and manage body roll enough that you don't need a ton of camber to compensate for it, and you also don't expect the kind of tire life where running significant static camber is an issue. So, I wouldn't take any bets on when we'd see electric camber actuators even if it's already feasible to do it. 

We had a guy bring the regular Model 3 to an autocross. It was bone-stock, right down to the tires. That thing still managed to kick some ass. I didn't get to ride in or drive it, but those who did said they were seriously impressed. I was also at a mini-track day at the nearby local private race track and someone brought a stock Model 3 Dual Motor. The last turn before the front straight is a very tight 180 degree turn, so you don't carry any speed into the front straight. He would stand on it with the Tesla and the acceleration was just staggering. Anytime it was out on track, everyone not driving would be standing along the front straight watching, because it was just awesome to watch.

In reply to NickD :

Our 2019 B Street champ drove a Model 3 Performance (is that the dual motor?).  It handles not badly for a heavy daily-driver sedan, but its real strength is delta-V at both ends of the open sections.  Even if he had to slow a little extra for the tighter elements, he could drop anchor at the last moment, negotiate the turn, and just stand on it as soon as he saw daylight on the other side.  He came within hundredths of a well-driven, well-prepared SSM C5 Corvette for raw FTD at a couple events.

FYI, a Performance is a dual motor with the stronger rear motor that's normally only on the RWD cars.

I spent some time at SEMA trying to convince my friends at Koni that the Model 3 would be a good platform for them :)

Keith,

Having an externally adjustable shock is going to be really important.  The car would not be any fun for the family as a commuter if you are running a setting that had any hope of taming how much the car wallows in the stock mode.

Please work your "friend".

Thank you in advance!

David

Externally adjustable - hmm. I'll have to look at the packaging. If it's anything like the E39, you can't access the rear shocks to adjust so they're the "compress and twist" style. Given that the rear half of the E39 is built around the shocks, this is not really an option that you'll use.

I shall pass along :) Our conversation was mostly around the new non-active "Active" brand, and since Tesla is hitting pretty hard in Koni's hometown of Europe they seemed pretty positive.

In reply to Duke :

It was interesting to note in the Nationals issue of Sportscar (the only issue of Sportscar I really read) that the guy who won B/Street with a Tesla said that it was "a fast car, but not a fun car" and that "its fun when you are accelerating, painful when you aren't"

In reply to NickD :

It PLOWS on corner entry. It's bad, but once you're accelerating all sins are forgiven.. 

I think it's easy to forget how heavy it is and that the stock tires are 500TW running at high pressure. It would be really easy to overdrive them. The car hides its weight well, but you can't cheat physics ALL the time.

spacecadet said:

In reply to NickD :

It PLOWS on corner entry. It's bad, but once you're accelerating all sins are forgiven.. 

 

I drove a "regular" Model X last year, and good god, nothing that big and heavy should accelerate as fast as that thing did. I couldn't imagine the smaller, lighter, performance-oriented models.

NickD said:

spacecadet said:

In reply to NickD :

It PLOWS on corner entry. It's bad, but once you're accelerating all sins are forgiven.. 

 

I drove a "regular" Model X last year, and good god, nothing that big and heavy should accelerate as fast as that thing did. I couldn't imagine the smaller, lighter, performance-oriented models.

My friends have a M3 performance and a C7 with Zo7 package and we went out with the pair on 4th of july to MSRC. I rode shotgun in both cars. You can feel the tesla rotate on throttle on corner exit. In the corvette we chased the M3 around later in the session and watched it crab walk out of every corner.. The way they've been tuned is fantastic. 

Keith,

I remember gaining access to the rear adjusters on my '89 Honda CRX by cutting/creating a hole in the plastic panels for my adjustable white shocks form that Japanese company.  Stated with "To.....

Limiting the rear rebound would help from having the transfer of weight to the fronts.  The stiffing of the fronts from that same transfer would limit the felling that you are "driving over" the front end of the car. Again, event set up is not street friendly.

Having brake pads that can deal with the weight and heat will be next.  You are not going to believe how hard they accelerate, then how hard and early you have to get on the breaks.  The tires melting gets added in when you are transitioning back on to the throttle and the slip angle of the tires. 

But the seats offer nothing to keep you in place.  As a passenger there is not much to hang on to.  At least as the driver you do not have to take you hands off the wheel.

All in all, it's great fun!

David

jr02518 said:

Keith,

I remember gaining access to the rear adjusters on my '89 Honda CRX by cutting/creating a hole in the plastic panels for my adjustable white shocks form that Japanese company.  Stated with "To.....

Limiting the rear rebound would help from having the transfer of weight to the fronts.  The stiffing of the fronts from that same transfer would limit the felling that you are "driving over" the front end of the car. Again, event set up is not street friendly.

Having brake pads that can deal with the weight and heat will be next.  You are not going to believe how hard they accelerate, then how hard and early you have to get on the breaks.  The tires melting gets added in when you are transitioning back on to the throttle and the slip angle of the tires. 

But the seats offer nothing to keep you in place.  As a passenger there is not much to hang on to.  At least as the driver you do not have to take you hands off the wheel.

All in all, it's great fun!

David

There is no adjuster to get to, if he is talking about the type of Koni's I'm thinking of. They have to be unbolted and compressed and twisted to change the valving and then bolted back up.

Think of how you open a prescription bottle.

Right. That's how Koni builds them if a shaft adjuster isn't viable - for example, if there's a bushing eye at each end as on my classic Mini. Or, more importantly, if the shock is buried so far inside the car that the top is inaccessible. That's the case with the E39 and with the Vanagon (sorta). On a car like my CRX, the top of the shock is right there in the load bay.

Looking at the Unplugged Performance stuff, the top of the front strut is fairly accessible. It's harder to tell in the rear but I think we may be in luck. At least two of the aftermarket guys have top adjusters.

I think I do believe how hard they accelerate :)