Jumping off LSX swap bandwagon...Ford Coyote engines

Appleseed said:

And the 5.3 is bad why?

Pffffft.

No replacement for displacement. 

418NV said:

Appleseed said:

And the 5.3 is bad why?

Pffffft.

 

No replacement for displacement. 

5.3 is still bigger than a 5.0 so I still don't see the issue.

The 6l iron block truck motors are plentiful and cheep.

as for pricing start with car-parts.com  that reflects the retail used market. You should be able to better that. 

418NV said:

Patrick said:

418NV said:

Ive found LS motors in my area getting stupid money for a 6.0

 

Not worth it IMHO

One can sneeze at the comp cams catalog and pick whichever part number the booger lands on, stab it into an LQ4 and make 400+hp for under 2 grand.  Your idea of “worth it” is far different than mine.

Last LQ4 I saw for sale locally on FB was $2600....

Selling a running driving LQ4 van friday for $1000.  That’s what I paid for it, then drove it for 6 months.

FYI 3 of the top 4 $2017 challenge finishers were the 3 4.8/5.3 swaps.  

Absolutely no respect for LS swappers. Well, berkeley you and your piece of junk too. Sometimes it’s about the right tool for the job instead of just being a tool.

As for the 5.3 - I’ve had one of those, a 5.7 and a 6.2 all in similarly sized cars. The 5.3 was noticeably weaker down low. Quick for sure, but I don’t miss the little one. The only real advantage they have is initial buy-in, and you only have to pay for that once. 

I think the OP wants to put the big ole coyote into a car that had the 4.6 which is just as big. I don't think he cares about space or the LS. Just replacing a big engine with a equally big more modern version. Maybe keeping it in Ford family? 

Also, every thread that is about swapping an engine that isn't LS based turns into a "yeah but the LS....".  Maybe just maybe we should stay on topic and think outside the LS box sometimes. It's okay to swap in other engines that are bigger less powerful etc. We all know the benefits of the LS. It's been beat over our heads for the past 15 years. I love the LS as much as the next guy but we don't need it shoved down our throat everytime someone dares to be different. 

I don't think anyone here is bagging on the Coyote. The size is the only immediate issue. 

As someone with a strong  contrarian mentality, I get where the OP is coming from.  Add in some brand loyalty, and it even makes sense in a broader context. And the Coyote does look cool; kinda like the old ford cammer.

We build cars for a reason. Some because they want a unique ride. A coyote would be great for this and in fact I tried it out in the Molvo to see how it would fit. ( it did not).  Others build cars to participate in speed events.  While the Coyote can hold its own in many events, as a participant, I know that I am going to have better luck scrounging for some broken doinkus for an LS than a mod motor, and that matters cause we have all been there. This same reality expands to the broader community of gear heads; while the Ford community might be the more evangelical of the two, there population of GM motorheads is so much larger and more welcoming.

Let us not talk of Moparheads.

NOHOME said:

......while the Ford comunity might be the more evangelical of the two, there population of GM motorheads is so much.....more welcoming.

 

I've had both Ford (5.0L pushrod) and GM (LS3) motors in my Volvo and wandered around/into car shows and cruise-ins throughtout NC and Tenn over the last (almost) 20 years.  I found the opposite to be true -- the Ford motorheads have been much more welcoming.  Only one data point and only a year or so with the GM - but no comparison on 'welcoming' so far.

Meh - put in what you want to put in.  There's only one opinion that matters.

From a less philosophical and more practical point, this is what has stopped any swap that I have contemplated with a Modular Engine. Big engine in small car does not seem to get along with that contraption. There are some pieces on the maket to make it better, but still a big  space eater.

As wide as the mod motors are, the issue is not exhaust packaging as I originally thought it would be. The headers don't really need any more room  side-side than the 302 headers; you just wont see them one installed because they are under the head!

Heat management is the final consideration for this swap. You need to move air past the rad and then out of the engine compartment is you don't want to heat soak the engine and occupants. With a small car-big engine swap the mod engine is going to be in the way of any air flow yet very close to the metal leading to the passenger  compartment. 

The other "no comparison" point between the Coyote and the 6.0L/6.2L LS swaps is torque output, especially bottom end/mid range.  The larger displacement LS motors win that competition hands down in a significant way.  When you take into consideration physical size, output, price/availability -- it's easy to understand which one is going to be swapped in a lot more often.  

As in the rest of life -- Math always wins.

Its been beaten to death that the Coyote is a large engine that is difficult to put into most small vehicles. But the OP asked about swapping it into vehicles that were designed for large, wide, modular engines from the start, so the size thing isn't a hurdle. Initial cost might be. Modifications might be, depending on the OPs goals, but size isn't a problem in this case. If he wants to run one in stock form, or he's just going to boost it it's a totally capable platform. If you want an "all motor" build, then there are better options than a DOHC v8.

In reply to MoCounselor :

since that same model also used an inline six that’s a natural choice. If you want power without weight look at Jaguar’s in line six.   Not the old 4.2 which weighs 720 pounds but the 4.0.

Its an all aluminum engine with 4 valves per cylinder. Very compact. Unbelievably reliable 250,000 miles is just a good start.  It’s almost as powerful as Jaguar’s big V 12  and in a race usually can defeat one since it’s so much lighter.  

That plus good fuel mileage and great Torque. Around  here the price is extremely modest  $450  will get you a nice one.  Since they are so durable there isn’t much demand for them  

NMRA's Coyote Stock competes directly with NMCA's Chevrolet Performance Stock. CS is sponsored by Ford and uses a factory sealed Coyote crate engine, where CPS is sponsored by Chevrolet and uses a factory sealed LS crate engine.  Both NMRA and NMCA are owned by the same outfit, and both CS and CPS have rules designed to make each competitive in a Ford vs Chevy format when they meet at the annual NMCA vs NMRA Super Bowl event. CS and CPS are both NA classes and with the same sealed engine format, basically if the engine needs anything more than plugs or an oil change you need to buy another factory sealed engine. The two classes use generally the same rules regarding fuel, gear ratios, clutches, transmissions, and tires, but there are some differences in place to equalize the two...

Coyote                              LS

302 ci                                347 ci

3175 lbs                             3200 lbs

80mm TB                         90mm TB

1.75" headers                  1.93" headers

3" exhaust                      4" exhaust

The Coyote basically uses more rpm to be competitive with the LS's larger displacement. The $6500 factory sealed Coyote Stock crate engine puts out 412hp @ 6500 / 390ftlbs @ 4250 on the class required spec tune. Current CS class record is 10.075 @ 131.86, which calculators say requires around 620whp @ 3175 lbs. These are stock NA 302 ci crate engines without any modifications.

Trackmouse said:

Whereas, I have absolutely no respect for someone with an “easy button” LS swap. Yawn, it’s been done a trillion times. 

This strikes me as a pretty uncool attitude.And I say this as someone with a 4.6 DOHC-swapped 57 Thunderbird.

Ovid_and_Flem said:

Random thoughts over Saturday morning CL and coffee.   With prices and availability  of 4.6 ford Mustang GT engines in short supply, how feasible is a Coyote 5.0 out of later model  wrecked F-150? Maybe specifically to throw one in a cheap later model mustang v-6 or blown up 4.6 l gt?

I would say yes do it. I would also look at the v6 eco boost from the f150 as well although I don’t think they can be had for cheep.  Is the coyote motor newer than the eco boost in the F150?  And what have they made more of?  

I also think that you will find that you will Be way ahead as many parts will match up and what does not work there is probably a ford parts bin solution. 

I have a free 4.6 sitting here that runs great.  It comes with a free 2000 Expedition. 

Ranger50 said:

As much as I want to wrap my head, hands, and money into a swap like a coyote, it’s 12-1500$ buy-in for a wrecked truck engine. I can get 2 LS’s for that same money amount. Plus they fit a hell of a lot more things and the computer system is almost completely broken, can run as mass air or speed density, by the aftermarket for tuning and plug and play capabilities.

Lets not even talk about OEM transmission choices that suck for modulars....

Kinda this...Mod motors are great engines, but once you buy in, and then once you nagivate the not very swap/tuner friendly computers, you still have to deal with the fact that Ford almost universally can't make a decent overdrive transmission.

Gen III/IV hit all of easy buttons.  Cheap and plentiful, swap and tuner friendly electronics, portable size, and GM transmissions generally don't suck.  That's why you don't really see too many Mod motor swaps when the swapper isn't already married to the idea of THAT engine.

Then there is the sound. A Coyote sounds glorious.

In reply to 418NV :

I inadvertently have made a Ford hater out of Lil Stampie so lately I've been pointing out how great the Ford V8s sound. 

Appleseed said:

And the 5.3 is bad why?

Because LS’s suck. Duh. I still want to cam a 4.8 and rev it to the moon. I know hot rod pulled 400+hp na on one. 

Trackmouse said:

Perhaps the goal here isn’t easy street. People said the same thing to me about stuffing a 1uzfe into my celica. The shock and awe factor goes along way for respect. Whereas, I have absolutely no respect for someone with an “easy button” LS swap. Yawn, it’s been done a trillion times. 

If someone's primary reason for an engine swap is "to get respect," that person is doing it fo the wrong reason. IMO..

One day far in the future when my 4.6l s197 gets tired I'm looking forward to bolting in a coyote. Other than that I got nuthin.

As has been mentioned in this thread numerous times the big killer for the coyote or any of fords modular v8 swaps will be the physical size and room in the engine bay. The whole reason the first gen cts-v got the ls6 originally was that the northstar simply wouldn’t fit in the cts engine bay. Now with the 5.3 engines there are so many variants of them that have been produced in terms of output and configuration. You had the truck versions plus also the fwd versions found in the impala Monte Carlo Grand Prix and lacrosse. The current truck 5.3 is making 355 hp and 383 for torque.