In reply to Stampie :
Wouldn't that also show up as excessive radiator pressure even when cold?
In reply to Stampie :
Wouldn't that also show up as excessive radiator pressure even when cold?
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I have had combustion chamber leaks pass a block test.
Air pressure direct to the cylinder, however, always finds it.
maschinenbau said:The dealership, after advising with technical support, is saying the freeze plug was likely defective so they ordered a new one and will replace it again. No estimated date given. Today marks 30 days spent at the dealership in the past 2 months. Or 1 full car payment spent not enjoying the car.
I have a hard time believing a simple freeze plug is defective, compared to a number of other potential issues like leaking combustion into the coolant jacket after it severely overheated or out-of-spec machining on the block casting hole where the freeze plug goes. I get strong BS vibes from this service department. I feel like the hot potato they are juggling until the warranty timer runs out. My gut says GTFO of this car.
I think GTFO the car is the thing to do. Carmax it and take the money.
I had leaking combustion in the water jacket on the E21, that was head gasket, and that thing was boiling, just boiling hot and blowing old radiators with aplomb. I wondered for a bit, but I put a bitchin aluminum radiator in it, and that sucker held, but it blew coolant past the cap.
Then I knew it was time to pull the head, and sure enough....
Run from it, man.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to Stampie :
Wouldn't that also show up as excessive radiator pressure even when cold?
Having had direct experience with a radiator end cap blowing off from this I can say maybe? On the Q45 we did notice that the overflow would gurgle on shut down. We just thought it had overheated from running at idle with low air flow over the radiator. It did that a few times over a couple of days before we had an instant steam cleaning of the engine bay.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
I have had combustion chamber leaks pass a block test.
Air pressure direct to the cylinder, however, always finds it.
Was doing a leakdown test on one of my Cadillacs once and heard a noise from the radiator. Opened the cap to find out what it was. You can probably imagine what happened next.
Can you lemon law it? If not, Carvana, CarMax it out of your life ASAP
OldGray320i said:maschinenbau said:The dealership, after advising with technical support, is saying the freeze plug was likely defective so they ordered a new one and will replace it again. No estimated date given. Today marks 30 days spent at the dealership in the past 2 months. Or 1 full car payment spent not enjoying the car.
I have a hard time believing a simple freeze plug is defective, compared to a number of other potential issues like leaking combustion into the coolant jacket after it severely overheated or out-of-spec machining on the block casting hole where the freeze plug goes. I get strong BS vibes from this service department. I feel like the hot potato they are juggling until the warranty timer runs out. My gut says GTFO of this car.
I think GTFO the car is the thing to do. Carmax it and take the money.
I had leaking combustion in the water jacket on the E21, that was head gasket, and that thing was boiling, just boiling hot and blowing old radiators with aplomb. I wondered for a bit, but I put a bitchin aluminum radiator in it, and that sucker held, but it blew coolant past the cap.
Then I knew it was time to pull the head, and sure enough....
Run from it, man.
This is exactly my fear. I've overheated this car past the coolant temp gauge twice, which ends at 250F. I made the red coolant light start flashing, a feature no one knew this car had. Step 1 should be pull the head and check for flatness, but fat chance FCA will do that.
What are the odds of two defective freeze plugs in a row (the originally failed one, plus the one they installed)? At the very least I'm guessing there's some tolerance stacking between the block casting and the freeze plugs, but I'm more of the opinion it's the block that is bad. If they aren't willing to tear into it, yeah, time to CarMax it. Unless you can trick someone in the same dealer group to buy it at a higher price. 
eastsideTim said:Unless you can trick someone in the same dealer group to buy it at a higher price.
This is exactly the right answer.
maschinenbau said:OldGray320i said:maschinenbau said:The dealership, after advising with technical support, is saying the freeze plug was likely defective so they ordered a new one and will replace it again. No estimated date given. Today marks 30 days spent at the dealership in the past 2 months. Or 1 full car payment spent not enjoying the car.
I have a hard time believing a simple freeze plug is defective, compared to a number of other potential issues like leaking combustion into the coolant jacket after it severely overheated or out-of-spec machining on the block casting hole where the freeze plug goes. I get strong BS vibes from this service department. I feel like the hot potato they are juggling until the warranty timer runs out. My gut says GTFO of this car.
I think GTFO the car is the thing to do. Carmax it and take the money.
I had leaking combustion in the water jacket on the E21, that was head gasket, and that thing was boiling, just boiling hot and blowing old radiators with aplomb. I wondered for a bit, but I put a bitchin aluminum radiator in it, and that sucker held, but it blew coolant past the cap.
Then I knew it was time to pull the head, and sure enough....
Run from it, man.
This is exactly my fear. I've overheated this car past the coolant temp gauge twice, which ends at 250F. I made the red coolant light start flashing, a feature no one knew this car had. Step 1 should be pull the head and check for flatness, but fat chance FCA will do that.
I should probably go read back through, but didn't the original owner have the overheating problem?
If so, it's been brewing a long time, I think you're the lucky recipient of a recurring, worsening problem that you're correct in saying FCA/dealer won't do (but should have).
Man, just u g l y
In reply to OldGray320i :
I don't know for sure if the PO overheated the car. The "normal" water pump warranty that these all get is just seeping coolant from around the pump seal. It is normally found by owners who notice a puddle in their garage.
Freeze plugs will be the issue the next time as well. ;) Odds are the sales department will not know the car has been in for service, or even care. Get a quote from them next time you're in.
I was in your shoes a couple of years ago with a different car. I couldn't sell the car to a human in good conscience. I could and did sell it to the dealership who had all of the pertinent information. It was one of th best moments of my life.
The new (3rd) freeze plug has arrived. After a lot of back and forth with engineering, the service manager said they are going to install it with some kind of adhesive with the freeze plug that needs to cure for 24 hours. He mentioned his tech just really wanted to put a new engine in it, but that's not on the table yet. I expressed my deep concerns that this just sounds like a band-aid and asked why aren't you going to pull the head and check for flatness or evidence of combustion leaks. "Not an option available to us at this time". I should have it back by the end of the week.
I am contemplating two options:
The latter sounds fun and would satisfy my curiosity about this problem, but there is a timer on the former due to the used car price frenzy inevitably waning soon. How does one initiate a car sale to a dealership? That seems so backwards to me.
Option 1 and run. Or lemon law it.
It looks like they refuse to fix it right, so get out while you can.
I would say that you walk in to the dealership side and find their used car guy that does internet sales and heads up the used car Department. Tell him you notice their inventory as well. You noticed the sign out front saying will buy your car. Sell it to him.
The service department is telling you the manufacturer is unwilling to stand behind the warranty. They're the ones paying for the dealership's work and they won't pay for more than say an hour of time. You can hope Stellantis will eventually stand behind the warranty, but I wouldn't recommend that course of action. (BTW - At least in my region, statistically Stellantis has the worst track record for these extenuating types of problems)
To sell the car to the dealership, you can simply walk into the sales area and tell them you'd like to speak to someone about selling your car to them.
When people "trade-in" a car, it's the exact same process, except they are trying to bundle that deal with an agreement to buy a car at the same time. The dealership may chose to keep the car to sell on their lot, or they may chose to wholesale it to someone else. In my case, the dealership wholesaled the car to someone else (I believe they said the buyer was the manufacturer's credit division). Be fore warned, they will pay you the wholesale price, not the retail price. Wholesale is normally thousands less. In your case, you probably can't sell your car to an individual at the moment without disclosing the issue, so the wholesale vs. retail difference may be smaller. At the very least you shouldn't sell it to a human without disclosing the issue. The process is kind of similar in that their initial offer will not be the most favorable offer possible (ie. normal haggling is required). I was very pleased with what I got for the car. I *might* have been able to sell it for slightly more (if I was unethical), but maybe not. In other areas the car sold for more. This is still a good time of year to sell a convertible.
The above about talking to whatever internet sales folks are in charge at the dealer is good advice. They'll buy it from you. Just be aware that the current market adjustments don't always translate to higher trade-in value.
Have CarMax and Carvana quote it so you have a baseline. You enter the VIN and it takes about 5-10 minutes of work.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Have CarMax and Carvana quote it so you have a baseline. You enter the VIN and it takes about 5-10 minutes of work.
This is good advice. This is a nearly new, cool looking car still under warranty. It's exactly the kind of inventory they want.
Don't expect the dealer to do you a solid for all the trouble you have had. The used car manager doesn't care one bit about that. Or actually, if they are aware, will probably low ball you further if they think you are desperate to end this "nightmare" .
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Have CarMax and Carvana quote it so you have a baseline. You enter the VIN and it takes about 5-10 minutes of work.
Agreed. We sold our i3 to Carvana and it was super simple.
Good advice all around. Thanks everyone for helping me through this. It's just such a letdown finally buying a car that's both fast and good, only for this to happen. I just started the Carvana process and the offer jumped up like a grand from last month, which was already decent, so I'll probably just do that. Meanwhile the Saturn is crushing my commute like a champ. Already put like 700 miles on it.
Dump it! Carvana is paying big bucks for new(er) cars, more than most regular dealers. Just sell it to them and be done with it.
I got a very reasonable quote from Carvana on my 2015 Challenger last year. They seem to do better than Carmax. The only reason I didn't sell my car to Carvana is the dealer almost matched their price as a trade in. The process seemed extremely easy though.
I hate to see such a nice looking car go, but I agree; dump it ASAP.
Read an article today that wholesale user car prices are starting to level off. Definitely a good time to get out from under it. Might be lucky and hit the peak valuation.
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