Kids karting - Grandpas take the next generation racing.

Grandpas take the next generation racing.

So, over the last year or so I made several posts in the Cost of kids karting thread.  Cliff notes goes something like this:

• Myself (Adrian) and another grandparent (Rob) wanted to take our, now six year old, grandson (Gage) karting.
• Gage’s youngest uncle (Rob's youngest son) who’s 14 has already been karting for a few years.
• We investigated this at the end of 2020 with a plan for 21, but his mom moving, and various other things prevented it for this year.
• A couple of months ago things started to happen and we’re all in.

So let’s start with a few words about kids karting and classes.  A few weeks ago we’d arranged for Gage to go out and try a kid kart (5-7 years old).  We knew this could be a problem as kid karts are thin on the ground, and several people locally have resorted to buying new karts for Circa $3-3.6K, and he’d only be eligible for one full year.  Also, they are two stoke engines and people seem to get in a spending war on them.  No so good.  Anyway, the first kart he tried the seat was so close to the pedals that he couldn’t operate them, someone else offered to let him try their kart, but while the pedals were closer to fitting him, the seat was so small that once jammed in as far as he could go there was still a good inch below his butt and the bottom of the seat.  Yes, easy enough things to move around, but not on someone elses kart while you are trying to share time with the owners kid between sessions.  Damn, poor kid, got all excited and togged up then couldn’t go.

After that we talked to Kevin, the track owner.  Awesome guy whose family has run the facility (East Lancing Kart Track) since the early 70’s, and they seem to have an excellent relationship with the surrounding community as well.  We agreed that we’d aim for a cadet class kart which are four stroke B&S 206 engine with different carb slides to limit the power in the younger classes.  While these karts are really for 8-12 and 12-15 year old’s depending on weight and set up, Gage will turn 7 next month, and he’s not small, height wise, for his age.  The plan was to find a kart, start with some test days next year until he’s up to speed and has some confidence, before doing a few races while still 7 at the end of the year.

Rob, the other grandpa, found a killer deal down in Indianapolis for a 2017 Energy chassis Cadet kart with a brand new this year, B&S 206, plus a stand and a few spares.  Once down there the kart was in such good condition that we paid the full asking price and are very happy with it.  We had the inevitable list of things to do before he could drive it.  This included getting him closer to the pedals.  This was done in two ways, first we adjusted the pedals rearwards as far as we could.  Then I machined up some larger diameter pedals as well, increasing their diameter to move the contact face closer to his feet.  Then we had to move the seat forward as far as we could.  This was accomplished by flipping the front mounts around, so they faced forward rather than rearwards.  On the sides we relocated one L shape bracket and made up another that had originally been a single locator.  This is all self-explanatory in the pics below.  Other than that, we set the track width front and rear, did a string alignment, a full nut and bolt check plus clean out the carb as the idle jet was clogged.  We also needed to put in the correct rear gear for our track.  This came out at 55.5 teeth, and we had a 55 and a 56 so we put the 55 in figuring to err on the side of caution and slow down the acceleration.

Can't wait to see him in action!

Love it! Keep us posted on the progress. This will be great quality time and hopefully stokes a love for automobiles & racing in your grandson. Great way to get him involved in something and excited to spend time with grandpa.

Glad to see you found something....................you'll be having loads of fun.

Next came his first test day at the track.  This last Sunday, Halloween, was one of the last chances we may have had to get him out for the first time this year.  The plan was just to shake the kart down, get him out there and see if he likes it.  Zero pressure, don't care if he's fast or slow, we just want to make sure the kart works, he likes it and let it sink in over the off season.  We got there at 10:00 on the dot as they were opening up and by 10:10 I had the kart and stand off the trailer, kart on the stand, all the straps rolled up and put away while the others were unloading the Phi's kart from their mini van.  Damn, I could like this karting lark, I couldn't have emptied the E36 M3 out of my own car to get ready for an autocross in that time frame.  I should note that as we're not sure of what slide we need for the carb (it's got a green slide in now for those in the know), so for now we just adjusted the throttle stop to limit his gas.

Kevin, the track owner gave the kart a look over as a sort of scrutineering (test day remember).  He thought it all looked good, but told us we need a couple more retainers/lockwires on a couple of components before racing.  No biggie, added to the winter prep list.  

Then came the racing driver prep talk from his big uncle.  This was so cool to watch a six year old who already hero worships his 14 year old Uncle listen as they talked through the track, where it goes, what to do etc.  Very cool.

Then it was time to get him in, fired up and ready for the off.  Looks happy doesn't he?

We sat there and practiced throttle and brakes for a few mins until it was time to go.  Initial amusing note.  HE watched everyone get in and blip the gas, plus his yard toys are on/off so 'throttle modulation' on those is done my blipping on and off.  So, once out on track, once on the straights instead of holding the gas open, he was blipping it on and off.  Amusing, but understandable.  he was steady, and followed his very patient uncle around the track feeling his way.

He then did another six sessions I think, slowly gaining confidence.  We just watched him and offered basic advice, but let him feel things out for himself.  As the day went on he started gaining more confidence, staying on the gas later, carrying a bit more speed through the corners etc.  By his penultimate session he had three or four spins as he was getting up to speed.  Around lunch time Chapparral here on GRM (AKA Charles)  arrived at the track.  He had a look over and noticed that the way we had the throttle cable attached and the return spring, he essentially had an on off switch.  After the session where he spun a few times we quickly moved the attachment points on the pedal so he had some progression to it.  Initially we had it too tight and it wasn't closing the throttle all the way, but another quick adjustment and all was good.  In his last couple of sessions he was starting to get into the grove and was able to stay with other kids and actually passed one other newcomer as well which delighted him.  I did see him catch some oversteer quite nicely towards the end, and he was starting to run reasonable lines with good turn in and apex, even if he's staying too tight on corner exit, but considering we never talked to him about lines he was obviously picking up by feel and observation.  We did notice that when faster kids passed him he tended to be quicker for the next couple of laps while he could follow them, but once he fell back he started lifting 20 feet earlier for corners again etc.  Non of this is criticism, this was all for fun, and that's what he had.

Overall the day was a massive success.  No, he's not lapping at 0.00001 outside the lap record or whatever, hell we purposely didn't put a stop watch anywhere near him.  The day was meant to be a shake down and find out if he enjoyed it.  Based on those criteria it was a massive success, objective met.

The winter to do list is:

• Another full nut and bolt.
• We're expecting another growth spurt so we'll wait until just before the season to adjust the seat position which we expect to need to move, and also probably fit a larger seat - A new one came with the kart.
• find the correct throttle slide for the carb
• weigh him and the kart and ballast up to the correct weight for the class
• Add some custom blocks and tie downs to my trailer to make loading and unloading even quicker and easier
• Get him new safety gear right before the season to allow for growth.  For this first outing he used a hodgepodge of hand me downs and borrowed.

So that's it for now.  to date we're into the whole endeavor for less than $1,500 each grandpa.  Our grandson had a blast and is looking forward to next year.  We don't plan on him racing initially, remember he'll be seven for an eight to 12 class.  We'll go out and do a few more test days, and once he's fully comfortable on track, reasonably up to speed and shows sufficient awareness on track for others around him, we will enter a couple of races towards the end of the season.  The overall aim isn't to find the next F1 world champ, it's for him to have a blast and enjoy his life, after that anything else is just gravy.  

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

My son is now 27 but he did some Karting between 8-14 (autocross). We did a lot of the same things, limited the throttle, didn't time him and did practice days. He also did the on off throttle thing as well as coasting instead of braking. He said he didn't want to touch the brakes cause the slow you down. I had to do a couple fo exercise to get him to understand he could stay on the gas longer if he used the brakes.

Same goal as you Grandson; have fun. I also wanted him to learn car control. He managed to do both.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Awesome, I may ask about those excercise next year before we go back.  

That sounds like an AWESOME first kart day.  Letting him figure it out, giving him no pressure is far and above the best thing you can do.  At some point, he'll get the "bug" and will start asking questions about better lines, braking points, etc.  You'll know he's fully hooked the first time he comes in and complains he could be faster, it's the kart that's all wrong. :D

We did notice that when faster kids passed him he tended to be quicker for the next couple of laps while he could follow them, but once he fell back he started lifting 20 feet earlier for corners again etc. 

The old adage of playing with people better than you rings very true.  Part of it is seeing what others can do and removing the fear by showing it is possible, the other may be a bit of the "red mist" of wanting to chase.  My son was always, always faster when chasing than when by himself and it took years of practice to teach him to chase himself when out front or running in practice.

Huge giant thumbs up to the grandpa's for giving him the best first karting experience he can have.  Here's hoping he's bugging you every day to go to the track and you end up spending more time with him than you ever imagined.  The hours in the car driving to and from the track are times with my son that were priceless.

-Rob

BTW, as he gets more into it, don't hesitate to come back with questions/advice.  Around the tracks, I found I had a knack for explaining racing, driving mechanics, etc, with the younger kids and people would often come by for me to simplify things for their kids.  I joked that it's just because I have the mental capacity of a 6 year old, so it was much easier for me......

Oh, I have no problems asking for advice, that's why I came to the original thread, and a big reason I started this one.

On a selfish note, I've already said to my wife that assuming he gets into it I may look for a cheap older senior kart in a year or so and go out too.  I'm old enough and fat enough that I have no illusions of being good at it, but it sure is fun.  I used to do track days in the 90's, then autocross including Nationals then one season of wheel to wheel road racing.  In the last couple of decades I've maybe done 3-4 track days and 6-10 autocrosses if that.  Rob the other grandad has years of track days, but doesn't anymore as he works for Ford as a Brake development engineer and gets paid to thrash Shelby GT350's-500's and Ford GT's around the track.  I think Rob had a drive in Charles (Chapparal) kart last year, and I had one go in an kart for about 10 laps at a test day.  No matter what.  Gage is the #1 priority, if I ever get a kart it will be very much secondary to his track time and fun.

• Another full nut and bolt.
  • Invest in a good pair of safety wire pliers and safety wire.  You'll use them and the safety clips a lot in karting.  Hopefully, most of the bolts are already notched for the safety clips as they're much easier to remove and put back on when adjusting.
• We're expecting another growth spurt so we'll wait until just before the season to adjust the seat position which we expect to need to move, and also probably fit a larger seat - A new one came with the kart.
  • Excellent idea.  You'll go through seats quickly at this age as the grow.  Remember, with no harness, you want the seat to be super tight.  Any side to side movement in the seat when he first gets in it will end up bruising him during a run and make it harder to control the kart.  Rib padding can help here if need be to tighten up the seat if it's a little too big. 
• find the correct throttle slide for the carb
  • Probably not a huge issue until you're closer to competition.  Although a month or so before the first race would be good to get an idea of how he'll compare to others
• weigh him and the kart and ballast up to the correct weight for the class
  • Double lock nuts on all bolts
  • Huge washers on both sides of the seat and on the weight to minimize cracking the seat
  • High up on the back of the seat for traction, lower to reduce traction.  For rain races, we'd move all the weight up high, for high grip and hot days, we'd move it down
  • Comfort level is up to you, but I'd always shoot for 2 lb's over with just a splash of fuel in the tank.  Nothing's worse than the kid getting their first podium or top 5 finish and being a pound under weight because they went through more fuel than expected.....
  • Start watching Craigslist and classifieds for scuba gear weight.  Perfect for a kart
  • You'll need to paint the weights white for most tracks. 
• Get him new safety gear right before the season to allow for growth.  For this first outing he used a hodgepodge of hand me downs and borrowed.
  • I've mentioned it before, but motorcycle Snell helmets seem to be easier to get (most big motorcycle shops have multiples in stock), gives them a chance to try on multiple styles/brands, offer a bigger eyeport for vision and still meet the competition requirements. 
  • High top wrestling shoes are a good footwear option and much cheaper than racing shoes. Many tracks require high tops to protect the ankles
  • I recommend a hard neck brace (Valhalla 360, EVS Sports, etc) over a foam neck brace. 
  • A good fitting pair of gloves with padding in the heel of the hand for pushing the wheel through turns can help with confidence

Sorry for the long post.  Just invested a lot of time and passion in this sport for many years.

-Rob

In reply to rob_lewis :

Great advice.  No apologies needed.  Thanks

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

Oh, I have no problems asking for advice, that's why I came to the original thread, and a big reason I started this one.

On a selfish note, I've already said to my wife that assuming he gets into it I may look for a cheap older senior kart in a year or so and go out too.  I'm old enough and fat enough that I have no illusions of being good at it, but it sure is fun.  I used to do track days in the 90's, then autocross including Nationals then one season of wheel to wheel road racing.  In the last couple of decades I've maybe done 3-4 track days and 6-10 autocrosses if that.  Rob the other grandad has years of track days, but doesn't anymore as he works for Ford as a Brake development engineer and gets paid to thrash Shelby GT350's-500's and Ford GT's around the track.  I think Rob had a drive in Charles (Chapparal) kart last year, and I had one go in an kart for about 10 laps at a test day.  No matter what.  Gage is the #1 priority, if I ever get a kart it will be very much secondary to his track time and fun.

Funny, my son bugged me for a few years why I didn't have a kart.  Part of it was money, as I'd rather spend the money on him than myself.  Reality was, I was too fat and out of shape to do it.  I did rent a kart one day when he was in a kid kart, very early in his driving.  The rental was about the same speed and acceleration as his kid kart.  In a 12 lap session, he lapped me three times..... 

Plus, I found I enjoyed the teaching/wrenching part of the sport much more.  If he gets fully into it, you'll may find yourself so flipping busy keeping his going, you wouldn't have time to drive yourself, anyway.

-Rob

In reply to rob_lewis :

Quite possibly, and thats part of the reason I'm not even going to think about it for a year until he's comfortable and racing rather than doing test days.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

Awesome, I may ask about those excercise next year before we go back.  

Pretty straightforward I took him to a big empty warehouse parking lot on a Sunday and did two exercises.

 I started by placing a cone about 100ft from him and telling him to floor it and then brake at the last possible moment to try and stop as close to the cone as possible. After a mix of spins and breaking to soon he could get within 2ft of the cone every time. 

Next I put another cone about  8ft to the left or right of the first one. Then I told him to go down to the cone brake, make a 180 degree turn and come back. He managed a bunch of spins but eventually got the hang of it. This gave him a good feel of how deep he could brake yet still make the corner. 

I intentionaly made it low speed so it wouldn't be the least bit scary.  

So, how many days was it before Gage talked about ANYTHING other than his karting day?

Adrian,

Is Gage bugging you to take a trip down to North Carolina or Georgia with the kart for a weekend yet?

My oldest is 5 years old and I bought a Kid kart last year. Originally I was going to run the 206 option but the support locally is 99.9% comer. The other negative is both tracks offer it but with a minium weight of 200lbs at one track and 170lbs at the other, Comer is 150lbs min. Essentially nobody runs the 206. I may wait until she is big enough for a Cadet (assuming she is interested I have two other younger kids that might be) As there is a specific class that has support.  Perhaps by then it will be easier to get the motors. I am planning to go to the OVKRA Swap in Feb to see if I can pick up anything cheap. I look forward to following this thread to learn.

Just seen there's been some comments in my thread.

trigun7469, sorry there's little support for the 205 in your area.  From what I've seen I'm very happy it's the biggest class near us.  Makes things simple and 'cheap'.

Chaparral.  LOL, possibly luckily I don't think such things have occurred to his seven year old brain.

triumph7.  Hehe, he loved it.  Right now it's all about snow sports (we bought him a snowboard) and horses.  Yeah, he's a spoiled kid!

ELKT is open for practice - have you gone back?

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

I found out that I actually bought a cadet and was able to trade it for a kid kart that has the Comer 50 that most race. I am trying to get to Fremont Kart track which is small and is about 1 hour away from me.

Picking the kart up tomorrow from the other grandpas' place, to finish tie downs etc.  Going to keep it at my place as the other grandpa is heading out of town for the rest of the month.  Going to try and get him out to ELKT before the end of the month.  

Anybody still going to East Lansing? 
 

not a grandpa but my son is 13, and has expressed an interest in trying kart racing.  It looks like the Briggs LO 206 4-stroke Junior class would be a good target.  
 

being totally green to this, looking to do some practice/fun runs to get a feel for things.  Would love to meet up to hang out with somebody on a practice weekend. 
 

Also, any input in this kart?  
https://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/snw/d/bristol-2020-razor-rs4-racing-kart/7486668833.html

I also emailed Michiana as I see they do a rental/teaching class but haven't heard anything back yet, but East Lansing will be our closest track to home (Grand Rapids area)

East Lansing is open, with good fields in most classes. 206 Junior is the right place to start.  Call Kevin, the track president, at 517-282-9387, to order your engine, and ask if he still has that old CRG chassis. 

xflowgolf (Forum Supporter) said:

Also, any input in this kart?  
https://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/snw/d/bristol-2020-razor-rs4-racing-kart/7486668833.html

In the kart world for 10+ years (but out of it for the past 5) and I've never heard of a razor brand.  Looks like they're more into asphalt oval than sprint, although that's a sprint chassis.  At $1400, the price isn't bad to get started, but you may find very little support at the track.  Having a more "common" chassis is easier to beg/borrow/buy parts when things break. 

-Rob

In reply to rob_lewis :

It looks roadworthy and like an asphalt sprint kart. They're made in Georgia so parts are 2 days from the factory by UPS. http://www.razorchassis.com/about-us/

No idea if they're any good, mechanical design looks as bad as a Margay's, but TonyKarts are way down there too and they're fast.