MrChaos said:ProDarwin said:Whats the lifespan of a modern automatic? Is it still reasonable to be scared of one totaling a car when it is near 200k miles?
likely similar to manuals as long as you service them properly which i assume most people wont.
A lot of them aren't even designed to be serviced though.
I don't doubt many can last a long long time, but the number of cars on FB Marketplace/CL at any give time with a blown automatic transmission is pretty staggering.
My vehicles are all automatic because that's all my wife can drive and the wagon was a factory auto car I have no desire to swap. I miss driving a manual sometimes but with my spine problems I sometimes have to sit in weird positions and might not even be able to operate a clutch pedal some days
I keep up on transmission flushes with the evil machine at my former employers and have never had issues, including the C4 in my wagon that was basically built as a burnout car with a big cooler
Cue "Why don't you still want to adjust your spark advance by hand?" comment here.
I like rowing my own, but after getting into motorcycles, the monumental chasm that used to exist between the automatic and standard version of a car narrowed to the thickness of a post-it note. Hey, if you need to beat your chest and exclaim how die hard you are by rocking a manual in your base subaru wagon, you do you. Chase your bliss. But know that after sitting on top of something that has three digit horses yet weighs as much as a patio table, it's not the thingy you grab to make you go forward or backward that's limiting you. It's the three other seats, the doors, the glass, roof, and so on.
So the way I see it, if i'm going to get into a metal box, I'll just pick the best metal box for what I'm doing. Going to work? Automatic Hyundai Accent. Living my best '90s rapper life? Auto LS400. Being an absolute moron? Manual Vette.
Automatics are for the birds and birds aren't real soooo...
Duke said:Cue "Why don't you still want to adjust your spark advance by hand?" comment here.
Well actually if your car has various driving modes you likely can do such a thing in todays vehicles. Albeit most of it is just throttle mapping but to the same effect.
BA5 said:I only buy a manual if it's actually the better gearbox. Since I have a lot of pre-2000 Hondas, that means I buy the manual version of the car.
But I have zero issue with a good automatic gearbox (see Porsche, new Corvette, etc). It's not the actual act of shifting the gears that I think is engaging during driving, it's the mental part of selecting the gear. You can do that well on new automatics, so it doesn't detract from the driving experience for me. Not to mention there's a lot more to the driving experience than selecting the gear, anyways.
It depends. Some automatics seem to create a significant lag between pressing the throttle and being able to deliver the power. They feel like you've made a driveshaft out of a set of rubber bands braided into a Mexican Finger Trap. A clutch doesn't have the same lag, and this effect feels like it's bigger on four cylinders than V8s, as well.
We have two manuals and three automatics in the family stable. My daughter dailies a stick, the second one is in my Mustang that I drive when I want to. (No traffic if I can help it.) My wife and son can both drive a stick as well but aren't as enthusiastic about it. I'll be doing a deep dive looking for manual shift replacements for my daughter when she decides it's time, she says she feels way more in control with the stick and wants another. If I'm looking for a fun car, it's likely going to be a stick. Otherwise for commuting / traffic use, no thanks.
Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:One of the best things about electric cars is that they make no manual transmission tolerable.
But otherwise, no way man!
This is actually part of why I'm asking. I loved the last car I had with an automatic, and so did the missus - it was a Chevy Volt. Still, around month 18 of 24 on the lease, I found myself thinking about where I'd downshift for turns, and thinking hard about the next car.
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:I killed them and it bothers me not at all. Well not really but if one has to go, let it be the stick.
There is no way I would drive a manual on a daily basis. Not with as much as I drive and the traffic I deal with. The only manuals I have are the G35 and the Samurai both of which inseldom drive. Everything else is a automatic.
I've had both a G35 and a Samurai, though not at the same time. That has to be an adjustment moving between the two.
MadScientistMatt said:BA5 said:I only buy a manual if it's actually the better gearbox. Since I have a lot of pre-2000 Hondas, that means I buy the manual version of the car.
But I have zero issue with a good automatic gearbox (see Porsche, new Corvette, etc). It's not the actual act of shifting the gears that I think is engaging during driving, it's the mental part of selecting the gear. You can do that well on new automatics, so it doesn't detract from the driving experience for me. Not to mention there's a lot more to the driving experience than selecting the gear, anyways.
It depends. Some automatics seem to create a significant lag between pressing the throttle and being able to deliver the power. They feel like you've made a driveshaft out of a set of rubber bands braided into a Mexican Finger Trap. A clutch doesn't have the same lag, and this effect feels like it's bigger on four cylinders than V8s, as well.
I think you would revise this opinion if you drove any of the newer autos, especially the DCT's. The PDK transmission in Sport mode is so lightning quick it's astonishing. The power is going to the wheels before you can even think about it.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:I think you would revise this opinion if you drove any of the newer autos, especially the DCT's. The PDK transmission in Sport mode is so lightning quick it's astonishing. The power is going to the wheels before you can even think about it.
Which brings up what an automatic transmission even is. People think "automatic" and think it's got a torque converter in it, but the PDKs and the VW DSGs are self-shifting clutched automatics, which is a whole other ballgame.
Considering I spent the first 20 years of my driving life with all automatics, and now I own two manual transmission cars: no, I'm not going back. 
I can't logically justify it, but slamming through the gears getting up to speed on a highway on-ramp is just fun for some reason.
The six-speed ZF paddle shift auto box in my Jag XK was the automatic transmission that I wish I had in all my daily drivers. For spirited driving and hooning there's no replacing the manuals I loved in my E30s/Miatas/M3/Boxster, but for a car that does everything else I'd pick that ZF. I wish I'd had it in my minvan, our old SUV, our old 5 Series, etc, etc.
Three of four of our 'street' vehicles are autos. Still have a manual NB Miata, and our NA track Miata is manual. Oh, and my motorcycle, but I don't really consider it part of the 'debate'.
Our '17 Ram dually (Aisin 6sp auto) replaced basically the same truck with a 6sp manual. It's superior in just about every way, but especially the gear ratios. The manual 6sp had a couple of huge gaps right in the spots where you needed them for gentle highway grades or steeper grades on slower mountain roads. This things job is to take us places (racetracks, vacations) pulling heavy loads, and the auto is much less work to drive. I arrive at our destination much less fatigued than I did with the manual.
Our ZL1 has the 10sp auto, and though not a direct comparison, it replaced a manual Mustang GT that was used similarly. Street + occasional HPDE. The 10sp is the closest thing I've driven to a P-car PDK and it's excellent. On track, let it do the work and you can concentrate on braking, throttle and steering. It's simply fantastic. For day to day driving, it's completely transparent, and much less work than a manual. With the power of this car, it's really much more pleasant with the auto. For canyon driving, I usually put it in manual and use the paddles because the 'performance' programming is too aggressive for the street, but regular 'D' won't hold the gears. It doesn't really need to hold the gears with the torque, but it's more fun on a mountain road.
When I get in our Bronco, I remember how bad automatics used to be. But it's still better for snow and the kind of trails we run than a manual. I'm researching 6R80/10R80 swaps for it...
And then there's the Miatas... which are still a joy to drive with their manual transmissions. But these cars are mostly driven only for fun anyway.
Objectively, modern autos get the work done better and faster, with less work for the driver. But manuals are still fun, under the right conditions.
I've got a stupid left knee that acts up every couple of months, so I have an automatic transmission for the times when pushing a clutch would be agony. I'd rather have a manual, but its just not going to be a thing for a couple years until I can get another dedicated "fun car", we're in a one car per person mode right now to save money with a toddler in the house. The automatic in my car works pretty well though and I don't miss rowing my own THAT much. I've got flappy paddles that allow me to select gears for times when I'd otherwise be caught out of gear, but hard driving for more than an hour or so makes for a very hot transmission that I can tell is not particularly happy.
I think that a dual clutch trans might be very close to the fun level of a manual, but the big thing that worries me with those is the long term ownership. A true manual has the advantage of being (generally) the more reliable AND fun option, while the dual clutch options add a lot of complexity. I know that VW DSGs have been shown to be fairly reliable, but they're not really in any cars that I like. The BMW DCT is in two cars that I'd really like to have (135i, N55/DCT and E90 M3, S65/DCT), but the BMW-Getrag DCT has some expensive leaking problems that scare me. And PDKs are supposed to be great, but even after owning a BMW for several years, I'm not sure I'd be okay with the level of ownership costs that come with a Porsche.
I still prefer a manual in my toys (like my current Boxster), but I'll never go back to one in my daily driver again. Putting aside the fact that modern autos are so good, so much more efficient and responsive than the autos of old, AND the fact that you can shift most of them manually if you want, I just have trouble with manuals anymore. I've had pain in my left hip for years, and clutch-in, clutch-out when driving in traffic is torture. I can take it for shorter periods or when I'm just cruising and don't have to shift that much, but anything beyond that, give me a slushbox.
I have a feeling that my current Focus RS will be my last manual trans. My current plan is that when it eventually wears out, it will be replaced with a Model 3 Performance, which of course has no trans at all. Even when driving my daughter's Fiesta DCT, I think to myself that my car would be faster with that trans.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:It depends. Some automatics seem to create a significant lag between pressing the throttle and being able to deliver the power. They feel like you've made a driveshaft out of a set of rubber bands braided into a Mexican Finger Trap. A clutch doesn't have the same lag, and this effect feels like it's bigger on four cylinders than V8s, as well.
I think you would revise this opinion if you drove any of the newer autos, especially the DCT's. The PDK transmission in Sport mode is so lightning quick it's astonishing. The power is going to the wheels before you can even think about it.
My current daily driver is a VW with a DSG, which also doesn't have that particular issue. I'd list that one as not giving up much to a stick shift. But the delayed response is pretty noticeable, and annoying, on many torque converter automatics. My wife used to have a 2005 Camry that was a particularly bad offender.
I have never had the luxury of owning a DSG or PDK. What % of sales are they? 2% of cars? Go to any rental car lot and drive a traditional automatic and you will realize they still have a long way to go. Lots of DCTs out there are very problematic. Same with CVTs.
I don't hate automatics, but I sure as hell am not under the illusion that modern autos are now superior to manuals.
ProDarwin said:I don't hate automatics, but I sure as hell am not under the illusion that modern autos are now superior to manuals.
I hate automatics. I have never driven a car with an automatic and gone this wouldn't be better with a proper manual. Although admittedly the only modern slappy paddle manual thing I have driven is a Volkswagen DSG.
I don't really plan to ever have a small enough number of vehicles that statistically speaking one or more of them aren't bound to be manuals.
Yall can't see the long pause i just took but i counted that i have 10 manual vehicles sitting around and im trying to decide how to feel about it.
I did drive a manual to work today. It needs a clutch (which i have). But, if it were auto and needed transmission repair it probably just wouldn't get fixed. I think manuals are one of the single biggest traits that affect the long term survival of older cars.
93EXCivic said:I have never driven a car with an automatic and gone this wouldn't be better with a proper manual.
A Prius would not be better with a manual.
Vigo (Forum Supporter) said:I think manuals are one of the single biggest traits that affect the long term survival of older cars.
Agreed, hence my question earlier in this thread. A failing auto will easily total an older car. And despite all of this 'modern autos are better' talk, they have a pretty high failure rate when they reach high mileage.
ProDarwin said:93EXCivic said:I have never driven a car with an automatic and gone this wouldn't be better with a proper manual.
A Prius would not be better with a manual.
I wouldn't want to drive a Prius anyway.
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