Last Years For Decent Analog Cars?

93gsxturbo said:

Closest thing I can think of to a modern vehicle that is extremely analog would be a 1997 Ram with the Cummins and the 5 speed manual

Manual engine (12 valve, no computer)

Manual gearbox, no skipshift or other crud

Hydraulic power steering with no real complicated assit or anything

Cruise control with a simple computer

AM FM CD or Cassette depending on the package

Available with manual windows and locks and mirrors.

Cable actuated HVAC

Resistor based blower control

Manual shift transfer case

1 Channel ABS that can be eliminated if needed and doesnt really control anything.  

Perfect donor for my planned J-truck.

A 401 CJ said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Uncle David (Forum Supporter) said:

Seriously, people? Analog means non-computerized carbs or mechanical FI. So 1980 or so. I consider my '77 Grand Prix to be just about peak analog. If you don't like 70's smogger performance then peak analog has to be 1970, maybe a little bit later for some Euro stuff.

Problem I have with 1970 "power" numbers is that it's not net.  That 425 hp big block in a 1970 Chevelle actually makes about 350 by today's standards.  The other problem is that it achieved that power with leaded fuel and 10.5:1 compression under heads that were incredibly inefficient, meaning you practically need race gas to drive it.

The thing that keeps me buying mid 70s-mid 80s smogger stuff is that it was the same architecture, they just neutered the compression and cam.  I can't think of a single American-made smogger car that isn't a head/cam swap away from glory.

And a lot of it was just a numbers game.  I remember in the '80s when my grandfather would lament the fact that he'd gotten a '72 Ford LTD instead of the '71 right beside it at the used car lot.  He said the '71 had 80 or 100 hp more.  Then I got my hands on one of the big "Motor" manuals that covered all domestic brands for about a 10 year period.  I looked up the specs on the 400M that grandpa had.  Compression: same as '71.  Timing: same settings as '71.  Cam & Valves: same size as '71.  The difference in the engines: the decal on the air cleaner.

Numbers game in both directions.  Chevy had some 427s that dynoed at a genuine 575hp but were rated at 435hp so only racers would pay the extreme premium price. And the NHRA would handicap it accordingly 

It is also amazing how in the early 60s the top engines were around or slightly under 400ci and they all made "425hp"... and as the engines got larger, the cylinder heads got better, the cams got bigger, etc., they still made "425hp".  Almost as if there were some gentleman's agreement with the Big Three, like the Japanese 276hp limit...

Keith Tanner said:

ddavidv said:

I draw the line at CANBUS. This link will take you to a video that gives a prime example of what I've seen in the last few years. I totaled an under 10 year old Mercedes because a rodent chewed the wiring harness. Even the dealer couldn't tell us where the bill might stop because of all the potential interconnected componentry that could have shorted out. We are now in the era of truly disposable cars. 

Ironically, CAN bus actually simplifies the wiring instead of making it more complex. So you're drawing the line at the absolute worst spot, the maximum wiring complexity.

I think the original intent of the term "analog" is "unfiltered". Cars where the driver feels as if they are directly in control, and receive direct feedback. This can happen with things like DBW if it is programmed correctly, and CAN is invisible to the driver. The driver wants to make some decisions (such as when to shift gears) but not all decisions (manual spark advance, anyone?). Where that line lines is where it turns into a pub discussion.

And there are a lot of ways to filter out driver feedback that are purely mechanical. The power steering in my Dart had about as much feedback as playing Need for Speed on a PC... with a keyboard. All hydraulic automatic transmissions can be very slushy. There are even cars that used small shock absorbers on the carburetor to duplicate some of the worst DBW behavior. Analog filters can filter as effectively as digital.