The girlfriend is looking for newer and more reliable transportation to replace her dying Cadavalier, and has her heart set on this low mileage 2003 SXT we've found locally.
What are the common weak points and things I should be looking for? This will only be a commuter, and she will probably be selling it or trading it off to get a car she actually wants in a year or two. She really wants a turbo Cobalt SS, but it's just not in the budget right now.
Thanks in advance!
how cheap? those are not great cars.
Really? I thought those were mostly re-styled 1rst gen?
Timing belt/water pump. If it is over 100k and hadn't been done then it is a time bomb. The 2.0 is an interference engine. If you've never done one plan on it taking a day to do.
belteshazzar wrote: how cheap? those are not great cars.
Ive been finding them between 1-4k around here for a nice reliable car that is nothing.
BTW they are excellent cars
The 02+ comes with a 4spd auto that really transforms the car (if the one she is looking at is an auto)
Vastly similar to a 1gn neon, many parts interchange. All parts are cheap and usually available from the junkyard.
Timing belt is due at 100,000mi its about $180 for kit with belt and water pump which you want to change all at once. If you're handy it shouldnt take but a couple of hours.
Change the plugs every other oil change use nothing but the OE spec Champions (parts stores will tell you NGK Platinums are OE they are wrong demand the Champs)
A set of front control arm bushings really help $30 and an afternoons work make them feel like new cars.
My 2gns are some of the best cars Ive had the SRT4 was a daily driver and occasional autocross/track car for 75,000 of its 110,000mi. Other than wearing out control arm bushings its been perfect. The R/T has been a daily driver from December of 03 when we picked it up until today just over 100,000mi and literally nothing has failed, I change oil and one set of brake pads
Visit 2gn.org a great site full of knowledgeable and nice people that really know these cars.
BoneYard_Racing wrote: Change the plugs every other oil change use nothing but the OE spec Champions (parts stores will tell you NGK Platinums are OE they are wrong demand the Champs)
Wow why do they go through plugs so fast? On most modern cars you slap in any plug and it lasts forever if the engine's in decent shape.
i sell a lot of wire sets for that engine as well as the plugs (champion IS the answer).
P/S pump seems to be common failure. and the cam position sensor. plus the oil pressure sending unit.
GameboyRMH wrote:BoneYard_Racing wrote: Change the plugs every other oil change use nothing but the OE spec Champions (parts stores will tell you NGK Platinums are OE they are wrong demand the Champs)Wow why do they go through plugs so fast? On most modern cars you slap in any plug and it lasts forever if the engine's in decent shape.
I wouldn't go 6-8k to change plugs, but the plugs are so damn cheap and cheaply made that it seems like it's that soon. 30k on plug changes or you will end up with reduced performance and random misfires. Agreed, ONLY Champions or you will pull your hair out chasing down stupid misfires and poor performance. Also, agreed on plug wires, cheap and cheaply made, plus they COOK underhood from where the coil is placed just above the hot header/manifold blocked of ALL airflow. 
The cam sensors fail when the seals leak and oil winds up in there. Aftermarket sensors dont come with the best seals.
Not sure about the P/S pumps Ive never had one fail so I really cant shed any light on that
The ignition systems are a little strange a simplistic explanation is when 1-3 fire 2-4 fire for lack of a better term backwards its hell on plugs and wires more specifically it will destroy platinum plugs in a heart beat. I change them every other oil change because its $6 or so and it seems to make the cars run much better. This does not apply to SRT4s I use an NGK copper plug (same as the recommended plug for a stage 3R upgrade)
BoneYard_Racing wrote: The cam sensors fail when the seals leak and oil winds up in there. Aftermarket sensors dont come with the best seals. Not sure about the P/S pumps Ive never had one fail so I really cant shed any light on that The ignition systems are a little strange a simplistic explanation is when 1-3 fire 2-4 fire for lack of a better term backwards its hell on plugs and wires more specifically it will destroy platinum plugs in a heart beat. I change them every other oil change because its $6 or so and it seems to make the cars run much better. This does not apply to SRT4s I use an NGK copper plug (same as the recommended plug for a stage 3R upgrade)
It works the similar to the Ford EDIS system in that way. One side of the coil pack fires and the other half fires as well, but in a much reduced capacity and it wears out plugs slightly faster than otherwise. So instead of every other oil change, maybe go every 5th or 6th one. Not the end of the world.
The coil pack and wires could also be moved, but you'd have to find plug wires that will work with the new location (or vent the hood/add heat shielding/ceramic coating on the header)
I've never had any luck with Platinum plugs on any of my cars, so yeah I don't buy them. Regular Champions and NGK's have worked great for me.
BoneYard_Racing wrote: The ignition systems are a little strange a simplistic explanation is when 1-3 fire 2-4 fire for lack of a better term backwards its hell on plugs and wires more specifically it will destroy platinum plugs in a heart beat. I change them every other oil change because its $6 or so and it seems to make the cars run much better. This does not apply to SRT4s I use an NGK copper plug (same as the recommended plug for a stage 3R upgrade)
Same deal on the Miata, any wasted-spark ignition system will chew through plugs and wires.
Wikipedia link for further info
The two main changes they made for the second gen cars is adding frames to the windows, and adding a couple of inches of suspension travel. Massive improvement from a daily driver perspective.
Try to find one with overdrive if you are on the freeway.
If you are changing plugs that often, you are doing it wrong. 30k miles is early.
Actually the 2nd gens are physically larger than the 1Gs and not as much interchanges as you think. I have a buddy that has both and its like they copied the 1st gen with the copier set to 110% size.
turboswede wrote: It works the similar to the Ford EDIS system in that way. One side of the coil pack fires and the other half fires as well, but in a much reduced capacity and it wears out plugs slightly faster than otherwise. So instead of every other oil change, maybe go every 5th or 6th one. Not the end of the world. The coil pack and wires could also be moved, but you'd have to find plug wires that will work with the new location (or vent the hood/add heat shielding/ceramic coating on the header) I've never had any luck with Platinum plugs on any of my cars, so yeah I don't buy them. Regular Champions and NGK's have worked great for me.
Much better way of saying it I was drawing a blank on the phrase wasted spark.
We make coil heat shields. My SRT4 would actually melt coils. Its pretty simple just some sheet stainless steel.
I am sure Im premature on the plug changes but I also indexed the plugs on my tow rig when I changed them 40,000mi early Im just sort of anal when it comes to spark plugs (a good joke after that must guarantee a "say what" appearance) for a set of champs here its like $12 its worth it to me
I've noticed the cam sensor issues are in the later 2nd gen cars ( 03+). I have a '02 SXT that just turned 263,000 and it runs like a top other than some lifter noise when it's cold. I've seen other early 2nd gen cars ('00-'02) that have over 300,000 miles on em. Other than rust, and worn suspension, they make decent commuter cars,imo.
I love my SXT. If you go with a 5-spd car, change the stock shifter bushings out. poly ones are like $20 for a set of 4.
Can't go wrong really. Everything has already been pretty much covered.
Looking for a clean 2gn for myself actually.
I've been looking for one that chucked it's belt but the price the past few months has gone up. They were popping up for 300-600 first part of the year, but now everyone wants 800-1200 for a car that doesn't run. I don't get it.
I hate to be a cynic, but probably they just need money for Christmas. A non-running car is (in theory) easy to convert into money, and you won't miss it when it's gone because, hey, it's not running anyway.
Come back after January 15th with cash and you may find that the price has reset itself from Wishful Thinking to Reasonable Under The Circumstances.
The two main changes they made for the second gen cars is adding frames to the windows, and adding a couple of inches of suspension travel. Massive improvement from a daily driver perspective.
That is so incredibly true.
Having said that, i dont personally like 2nd gens because 98% of all the ones ever built are hideous and the weight difference is more than what the 'comfort' improvements are worth to me. Thats a purely personal assessment. For 98% of drivers the 2nd gen is a better car and the 2 reasons you mentioned are a huge part of that. I would list interior quality as the other major point.
Pretty much what everyone else said, they aren't that much fun compared to the first gen but not really any worse otherwise. And dont buy one if you arent going to change the timing belt on time, it really will break and bend all the valves.
Stealthtercel wrote: I hate to be a cynic, but probably they just need money for Christmas. A non-running car is (in theory) easy to convert into money, and you won't miss it when it's gone because, hey, it's not running anyway. Come back after January 15th with cash and you may find that the price has reset itself from Wishful Thinking to Reasonable Under The Circumstances.
Yeah, I figured someone would say that's the case but it seems like since July/August its been that way. There is a beat 01 on cincy craigslist that is listed for 979. Its been listed for months at 999, and now he has sold the radiator and front bumper and still wants almost the same price for it.
I'd say the R/T's are pretty great cars, if you can still find a clean one around. The DOHC wasn't available in the 2nd gen, but the R/T came with a better head/cam/intake that resulted in a fair bit more power than the base models.
when you change the timing belt, use the correct puller for the harmonic balancer too. I know it seems like that goes without saying, but this isn't an engine you can just throw any old two-jaw on.
Wants turbo Cobalt, likes 2gen Neon. Uhhhh...SRT4?
I'd say the R/T's are pretty great cars, if you can still find a clean one around. The DOHC wasn't available in the 2nd gen, but the R/T came with a better head/cam/intake that resulted in a fair bit more power than the base models.
Yeah, the r/ts are pretty cool. But they seem harder to find than the srt-4s, really.
All the parts stores rent the tool to pull a chrysler crank pulley.
The last time i did a 2nd gen neon timing belt and water pump i think it took me 2-3 hours on a lift in a shop with all the tools. They are not the easiest but if you have everything going for you (knowledge, tools, lift, etc) they can be done fairly easily.
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