Learn Me: Audi Allroad

Ugh, the corrado was HORRIBLE. I don't know if I got a Monday car, but that car was the WORST.

However, the allroad has been dead nuts reliable. I've had to do normal maintenance, you know, things like replace the brakes, do oil changes, timing belt/water pump.

How does that happen you ask? All VAG products are conceived by the devil and built by demon spawn!

Well, I bought the RIGHT car. I bought one that has all the records, has been maintained and when something broke, it was upgraded with the better parts.

I sound like a broken record, but German cars (ALL of them) do not suffer fools. Buy a neglected one and be prepared to suffer the consequences.

The only happy B5 S4 or All Road owners I know are two guys who are very experienced mechanics that work at a well known euro performance shop.

One guy I know thought he was even getting a sweetheart of a deal and bought a B5 S4 that went through about $7K of maintenance at a shop and he bought it for basically the cost of clearing the previous owner's repair bill. It had a lot of work done and it still went to hell on him.

Buying a B5 2.7TT car and expecting it to be problem free is like walking into a brothel and expecting to find a good clean Christian woman to marry! A B5 S4 will give you automotive herpes.

Don't get me wrong I love VAG cars, but I think Travis kinda nailed it below:

Travis_K wrote: There are two kinds of people in the world, those who buy VAG products because they would rather walk than drive anything else, and those who don't buy them because they don't want to walk everywhere.

I know plenty of VAG owners who would refuse to drive anything else. They are fun, well handling, responsive cars with good styling and build quality, etc. but they are definitely not without their quirks and problems.

I bought my first BRAND NEW car a few months ago and I chose to walk away from a VW or an Audi and do a new Mazda6 instead. I didn't like the direction VW has taken with cheapening up their cars to make them compete with (and look and drive like) Camrys and I wouldn't have trusted an A4 either.

Huh, I have a friend who owns several Audi's (and a VW Tourag), including a supercharged S5 and an Allroad.

Between the S5 being broken or the Allroad, she's been driving the brand new Tourag quite a bit lately. Her Audi friends give her a lot of crap about the All-Road being broken. At least with the S5 its because she tracks it and pushes it damned hard for such a porker. She does some of the maintenance herself with the heavy lifting done at the local performance VAG dealer (Sunset).

Between that, what I've experienced with other's who are just as careful with their Audi's and my own family's efforts with Audi's, I'd say you were damned lucky because even well maintained Audi's of that vintage CAN BE painfully expensive to own and maintain. Obviously some won't have the issues reported here and some will, but the costs involved seem a bit high in either case and that, to me, is the crux of the problem ultimately.

(Oh and BTW, before anyone asks, yes this friend in question is single and yes, she can drive a stick/race. Oh and she's a red-head and no you don't have a chance with her, heh.)

Put 95k miles on a '01 Passat, no work needed but tires, oil, gas, 1 timing belt/water pump, 1 remanned MAF

Put 90k miles on a '04 Audi A4 Avant quattro, no work needed but tires, oil, gas, 1 timing belt/water pump, 1 set of rear brakes

Put 60k miles on B5 S4 avant, no work needed but tires, oil, gas, 1 timing belt/water pump.

I have 140k miles on my allroad, I bought 1 12k miles ago. In going through all the service records, its on it's original CV boots and axles, has had 1 set of airbags replaced with arnotts/bilsteins, had the turbos upgraded to K04's around 90k miles ago and that's it. Everything else is basic maintenance that any car needs.

I fully grant that these cars aren't like a Japanese car that seems to eschew any kind of maintenance at all. However, maintained properly, they're nowhere near the unreliable $$$hitboxes people here make them out to be.

docwyte wrote: Put 95k miles on a '01 Passat, no work needed but tires, oil, gas, 1 timing belt/water pump, 1 remanned MAF

Whats book time on replacing the MAF? And diagnostic time to figure that out. And how many OVERALL miles were on it? If it was brand new, then yea, thats no good.

Put 60k miles on B5 S4 avant, no work needed but tires, oil, gas, 1 timing belt/water pump.

What, no turbocharger? Oh, or was it the V8? How much does that water pump/timing belt cost at shop rate? And buy your "no work needed", was that based on doing maintenance by the owners manual/service intervals or on your own?

I have 140k miles on my allroad, I bought 1 12k miles ago. In going through all the service records, its on it's original CV boots and axles, has had 1 set of airbags replaced with arnotts/bilsteins, had the turbos upgraded to K04's around 90k miles ago and that's it. Everything else is basic maintenance that any car needs.

So, you basically have spent the equivalent of minimum $5k at a shop on a vehicle worth less than $10k.

I fully grant that these cars aren't like a Japanese car that seems to eschew any kind of maintenance at all. *However*, maintained properly, they're nowhere near the unreliable $$$hitboxes people here make them out to be.

Our definitions of reliable must be different. You must also have a $150/h shop rate, because that's also justifiable in some people's heads.

I dunno. I've never met a MAF i couldn't replace in under 5 minutes.

OBD2 cars are pretty good about telling you that the MAF is bad in about as much time as it takes to boot up a code scanner, too.

Nope, scanned it with VAG COM, replaced it in minutes. You seem pretty hung up with "Book time". Do you take the car to the dealer for everything? Do you not do any of your own work or use a good indy shop?

Do other cars not require timing belts or other maintenance done, or is this solely something that Audi's need?

docwyte wrote: Do you not do any of your own work or use a good indy shop? Do other cars not require timing belts or other maintenance done, or is this solely something that Audi's need?

I do all of these things. I assume (even with 95% of car enthusiasts) that most don't, because, well, most don't. And if they are a typical person, they are a lot more likely to take it to a dealership because they SHOULD have experience working on the cars they sell.

My point is, congratulations, you are a mechanic. You do not represent even every mechanic, let alone everyone else who wants a car. I just did a motor swap on a jdm wrx. All by my wittle self. I can't even begin to fathom dealing with a 2.7TT (or hell, even the 1993 Audi S4 I had, doing the slave on that was f*&king retarded which is why I paid someone else to do it and it still came out to $700).

HiTempguy wrote: I do all of these things. I assume (even with 95% of car enthusiasts) that most don't, because, well, most don't. And if they are a typical person, they are a lot more likely to take it to a dealership because they SHOULD have experience working on the cars they sell. My point is, congratulations, you are a mechanic. You do not represent even every mechanic, let alone everyone else who wants a car. I just did a motor swap on a jdm wrx. All by my wittle self. I can't even begin to fathom dealing with a 2.7TT (or hell, even the 1993 Audi S4 I had, doing the slave on that was f*&king retarded which is why I paid someone else to do it and it still came out to $700).

Anecdotally, I haven't really noticed much difference in reliability between Audis and BMWs, nor much difference in parts cost. Labor cost is different -- with the front/longitudinal engine mount, AWD, and a V6 or V8 engine there just isn't much access so you have to take a lot of stuff off. A lift quickly becomes a requirement, so a lot of stuff that is DIY home garageable on a BMW becomes take-it-to-a-shop on an Audi.

Also anecdotally, every single 2.7T that I know of with early-stage turbo replacements had been chipped, whereas those running at stock power levels went 100K+ miles. Somehow I'm not surprised that spinning the turbo faster than intended results in reduced bearing life. This is a risk you take when chipping a turbo car.

The older BMW's were easier to work on as the engine bays were good sized. With the new turbo motors the packaging is becoming Audi esque and they're commensurately harder to work on.

My 2001 Audi A6 2.8 wasn't that unreliable, but I did get rid of it at 90k miles after putting about 50k on it. At first it had some odd electrical issue where something would get wet under the hood when it rained and kept throwing it into limp mode, but after the third time it came back they figured it out and it never had that issue again. The rest was regular maintenance, though it did blow out a cat under warranty. It did require the timing belt service with the front end off, which I think amounted to around $1100 or so at the dealer. I sold it to my neighbor. He got another 70k out of it and then the transmission (auto) blew out and he dumped it.

Everyone and anyone I've ever spoken with has always said not to get the 2.7T cars and especially not the Allroad.

Then again I bought an E39 540i and that had every failure the car could possibly have. Multiple water pump failures, valve cover gaskets blew out every 30k miles, both cats and O2 sensors went before 80k, clutch was worn out by 90k. I just daily drove the thing too, wasn't really killing it.

Everyone on the BMW forums that continued to own a 540i used to crow about how easy they were to deal with, but most of those people weren't phased by spending a weekend replacing valve cover gaskets on the car every 30k miles and didn't mind that the aftermarket catalytic converter options were worse than the stock part (which is around $1300 for one side) and would burn out and throw codes before a year came up. Keeping a vigilant eye out for blown cooling systems every 60k or so was just part of the fun.

To each their own.

turboswede wrote: (Oh and BTW, before anyone asks, yes this friend in question is single and yes, she can drive a stick/race. Oh and she's a red-head and no you don't have a chance with her, heh.)

An S5 owning, stick driving, racer that is also a redhead? Where does she live I want to propose sight unseen!!!!

Datsun1500 wrote: Audi techs say Audis are junk, because they always see broken ones. BMW techs say BMWs are junk, because they always see broken ones. Chevrolet techs say Chevrolets are junk, because they always see broken ones. Dodge techs say Dodges are junk, because they always see broken ones. Etc. etc. etc.

That's a fallacy created by people who ask people "in the know" about cars and don't like the answer they are given. In other words, "I reject your reality and substitute my own".

As an Audi tech I do scheduled maintenance on them and find lots of failures. As a BMW tech I do lots of scheduled maintenance and find lots of other problems on them too. We don't just see broken cars, we do the regular maintenance on them. But please, buy all the 2.7Ts you can get your hands on and bring them home. That many less for me to deal with.

Contradiction wrote:

turboswede wrote: (Oh and BTW, before anyone asks, yes this friend in question is single and yes, she can drive a stick/race. Oh and she's a red-head and no you don't have a chance with her, heh.)

An S5 owning, stick driving, racer that is also a redhead? Where does she live I want to propose sight unseen!!!!

Oh and she owns and knows how to use hand-guns and AR-15's. Jus' sayin'

Cone_Junkie wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: Audi techs say Audis are junk, because they always see broken ones. BMW techs say BMWs are junk, because they always see broken ones. Chevrolet techs say Chevrolets are junk, because they always see broken ones. Dodge techs say Dodges are junk, because they always see broken ones. Etc. etc. etc.

That's a fallacy created by people who ask people "in the know" about cars and don't like the answer they are given. In other words, "I reject your reality and substitute my own". As an Audi tech I do scheduled maintenance on them and find lots of failures. As a BMW tech I do lots of scheduled maintenance and find lots of other problems on them too. We don't just see broken cars, we do the regular maintenance on them. But please, buy all the 2.7Ts you can get your hands on and bring them home. That many less for me to deal with.

Case in point: Acquired my FIL's 94 740iL w/209K. It looks beautiful thanks to the new black paint, tinted windows, etc. A/C works, new high end Kenwood deck, etc. Drove the thing up here enjoying the rolly-poly suspension, the wandering steering and piss-poor brakes. So we took it to our local BMW tech/friend to do a quick check. He told us that unless we have an emotional attachment to it, to sell it. Now. He loves these cars, but a front end rebuild is $3K, fixing the engine miss (that I didn't catch) is another $1500, not to mention the bad guibo and maybe the rear subframe along with the brakes and whatever is wrong with the sunroof and the ASC system. His experience is that these cars are about a $1/mile to own not counting gas.

Now, I could do all of that work myself since the parts aren't too expensive, but at the top end, the car is only worth maybe $2K according to KBB. The parts alone would be north of that much, plus my time to R&R it all. So I'll clean the bugs off of it, take some pics and flog it to some local eastern europeans that don't mind doing the work.

My experience was pretty good I guess. I bought a 2001 Allroad automatic in 2008 and immediately had to replace a front axle ($120). Over the next two years I had to replace the battery and the headlight washer covers. Then the big service. Timing belt, both front airbags (suspension), replacement diverter valves and a stage 1 APR tune. Total for all that was about $3k but with the tune it was now a 320 horse race wagon!

Sadly only a few months later divorce struck and I was left with two cars. My Allroad and a 2005 Phaeton. I thought that a black sedan would be cooler with the ladies than a silver wagon so I sold my beloved Allroad. This proved to be the wrong choice so I soon sold the phaeton as well. (So much more to go wrong)

Now I have a 2007 Passat 4 motion VR6 wagon. It's smoother and a bit more refined than the AR. The extra gear makes highway speeds more relaxed but it isn't nearly as much fun. And the looks aren't as badass either.

I keep thinking I'd like another AR but finances and need don't really allow for it.

What would it take to put a TDI in an allroad? If you could make it mate with the 6-speed transaxle it would be a pretty sweet setup.

2002maniac wrote: What would it take to put a TDI in an allroad? If you could make it mate with the 6-speed transaxle it would be a pretty sweet setup.

You could do that swap for pennies. Hundreds of thousands of pennies. It might not be cheap but as far as i know there were tdi engines stock in every chassis family that the allroad came in.

Euro spec allroads came with TDIs. Look at theirs and see what you need.

turboswede wrote:

Cone_Junkie wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: Audi techs say Audis are junk, because they always see broken ones. BMW techs say BMWs are junk, because they always see broken ones. Chevrolet techs say Chevrolets are junk, because they always see broken ones. Dodge techs say Dodges are junk, because they always see broken ones. Etc. etc. etc.

That's a fallacy created by people who ask people "in the know" about cars and don't like the answer they are given. In other words, "I reject your reality and substitute my own". As an Audi tech I do scheduled maintenance on them and find lots of failures. As a BMW tech I do lots of scheduled maintenance and find lots of other problems on them too. We don't just see broken cars, we do the regular maintenance on them. But please, buy all the 2.7Ts you can get your hands on and bring them home. That many less for me to deal with.

Case in point: Acquired my FIL's 94 740iL w/209K. It looks beautiful thanks to the new black paint, tinted windows, etc. A/C works, new high end Kenwood deck, etc. Drove the thing up here enjoying the rolly-poly suspension, the wandering steering and piss-poor brakes. So we took it to our local BMW tech/friend to do a quick check. He told us that unless we have an emotional attachment to it, to sell it. Now. He loves these cars, but a front end rebuild is $3K, fixing the engine miss (that I didn't catch) is another $1500, not to mention the bad guibo and maybe the rear subframe along with the brakes and whatever is wrong with the sunroof and the ASC system. His experience is that these cars are about a $1/mile to own not counting gas. Now, I could do all of that work myself since the parts aren't too expensive, but at the top end, the car is only worth maybe $2K according to KBB. The parts alone would be north of that much, plus my time to R&R it all. So I'll clean the bugs off of it, take some pics and flog it to some local eastern europeans that don't mind doing the work.

Back in the early 2000s my father and I made the, in retrospect, piss poor decision to buy a 1995 BMW 740i with about 50k miles on it for his use. Paid $20k, no warranty.

The thing blew the fuel line soon after he bought it. It took several months for them to get that part in stock for some reason. They loaned him a Mini while that was going on. He got the thing back drove it for a while (I think about 10k) and then had them do an Inspection II maintenance on it per their recommendation. Soon after that three out of four wheel sensors failed. I'm failing to remember the later ongoing problems with the car, but after not driving it for about 50% of the time he owned it he finally dumped it off to someone else for $10k and called it a day.

Goddamn that car was nice to drive though. Just the best handling big sedan I've ever driven and so luxurious at the same time. Love the look of them too.

Look as a rule of thumb I just tend to avoid cars that leave MacGyver stranded on the side of the road

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/open-classifieds/fs-2003-audi-allroad-6mt-stage-3-385awhp/89755/page1/

I just peed from laughing

Laugh all you want. I had multiple offers on that car very quickly at close to asking price. I currently have a deposit in hand and the buyer is picking it up this Friday.

If you search for my posts you'll see that I've been thinking about getting a new DD for some time now. I bought this car specifically for the back seat space for my infant sons rear facing car seat. Now that he can go into a forward facing one I can get a smaller, more dynamic car.

I found an '08 E90 M3 sedan with 36k miles on it that I may buy...

it was only the timing of the 2 threads that really made me laugh, but it did make me laugh a lot.

docwyte wrote: Laugh all you want. I had multiple offers on that car very quickly at close to asking price. I currently have a deposit in hand and the buyer is picking it up this Friday.

Lots of idiots in this world, how do you think dealerships stay afloat?