My hope was that seeing the lack of track S4's was due to people being misinformed and the car being under appreciated, not because it's unsuitable. I see this might not be the case.
And honestly the car is too small and doesn't seem very refined to serve as a proper GT car. So it's kinda stuck in the middle I guess. Shame.
MattW wrote: My hope was that seeing the lack of track S4's was due to people being misinformed and the car being under appreciated, not because it's unsuitable. I see this might not be the case. And honestly the car is too small and doesn't seem very refined to serve as a proper GT car. So it's kinda stuck in the middle I guess. Shame.
By the standards of the day, it's quite decent in the refinement category.
As a pure street car, I like the B5 S4 better than the E36 M3. As a dual-purpose DD and track car, I'd have to go with the BMW.
They can be made to work at the track with enough parts (go to an Audi Club event and you'll see a lot of them), but it's not a natural fit and won't be cheap. I ran mine at Laguna, once.
In reply to codrus:
BMWs of that era had horrific interior quality, though. They do not age well at all. By now, you either have a concours example, or something cracky and flappy like a mid-80s GM. Bad interior quality is a non-starter for something you drive every day, IMO. You know the old joke about ugly cars, "I can't see it while driving"? You do see the interior while driving. And you hear the rattles and squeaks. Unforgivable.
The e36 and the e46 were both "b5" era. I'm assuming that you're referring to the e36?
There is a reason the e46 m3 has kept is value better than the b5 s4....
But the lower buy in price for the b5 s4 (and the absolutely massive power potential) continue to tempt me...
Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: There is a reason the e46 m3 has kept is value better than the b5 s4....
The E46 M3 cost quite a bit more than the B5 S4 did when new, as well.
The E46 M3 (in fact, really all M3s except for the weirdo 240hp US-only E36 M3) competed more directly with the RS4, with the S4s being lined up in the market against the 330 and later the 335. This isn't always obvious in the US market, because the only RS4 we got was the B7 (and even that one was a bit watered-down).
In reply to MattW:
Get the A6 2.7tt with a 6 speed if you want a GT sized A4. Mine was a great size fr 4 adults bombing down the highway with the trunk full. Ultimately, this and that kept needed to be replaced so i got a lot newer f150 that only went to the shop once in 5 years in contrast to my 1 year of a 100k + audi with at least 6 different repairs.
codrus wrote: The E46 M3 cost quite a bit more than the B5 S4 did when new, as well.
I don't know about that. After a bit of digging, the MSRP of a 2000 S4 was in the $40K range, about the same as the 1999 M3, if maybe a bit less (judging by what my ex paid for her '97 M3).
I agree about the E46, although that was a much more powerful car than the B5 S4.
During this digging, I found it interesting BMW built more E46 M3's than E36 examples: ~84K vs. ~71K respectively during their production spans.
I have a co-worker (in a different office, so I don't see him often) who has a heavily modified B5 S4 Avant that he's done track events with. He also managed to plant it into a tire wall at great speed as well, resulting in a hospital trip for him and a few broken bones. He loves the car, though, and despite the damage that I'm sure totaled the car, he rebuilt it (it's his main DD, although he has other cars).
The Audi interiors are nicer than the BMW, no question. They still are too.
I've owned 2 E36 M3's and 1 E46 M3, all are much better suited to the track.
I've had many friends who had the stock turbos blow up on their B5 S4's, the culprit is the tight engine bay. The A6/Allroad engine bays are much larger and the heat doesn't build up the same way, hence the stock K03's lasting a whole lot longer.
I tracked both of my B5 S4's, both had suspension, Stoptech brakes, oil coolers, etc, etc. Both sucked on the track, my M3's are far quicker and more durable and by a long stretch.
That doesn't mean you can't track a B5 S4 but you better be ready to pay for it in brakes, tires, fluid and breaking stuff.
That is the exact exact picture! I'm doing the timing belt on my 2007 V70R today and this picture gets me in the right mood as in comparison I will be doing nearly nothing for almost no parts cost in an afternoon at home.
Ian F wrote:Shaun wrote: But... what about the infamous timing chain? I'm sure someone will chime in with THAT picture.....OK...
A couple of S4 2.7TT Avants have sold on BaT recently. Definitely for far more than online pricing guide numbers.
When in Junkyards I am always impressed with just how far up and out in front of the rest of the car the engine and forward part of the drive train is on the B5 VAG products. It explains much of the handling and consumables downside if track car. The BMW 6 cylinders of the same era are much more physics compliant. (I have not seen a E46 B7 or B7 in a junkyard),
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