So this pace weekend I went racing at Buttonwillow. Sunday was 95F with 20% humidity and I'm getting tired of baking on grid so I am now thinking about getting a cool suit.
My main concern is how much attention do they need throughout the day. I don't want an extra worry of having to bring a bunch of extra ice etc.
So for those of you using them, how are they to deal with?
Endurance racing in the South, they're a necessity. But I always use them when doing TTs and shorter stint stuff, too. It's just so much more comfortable.
As far as ice use, "it depends." I find they last about two hours of driving time in warm weather before they need fresh ice, so if you're doing shorter races and can keep the cooler somewhere shady when it's not in the car you'll probably be fine with one set of ice all day.
FWIW They are great when they work. When they don't they are a PITA.
Thet require a good power source, draw a lot of battery power, and as noted SUCK when they don't work.
Supported their installation, maintenance and feeding as part of the engineering department responsibilities in my NASCAB Days,
Did I mention they are a SAUNA when they don't work
Same with helmet blowers
Good Luck
I use a Cool Shirt brand one. Yes, it's expensive for a bilge pump epoxied into place with an epoxied hole with dry-break fittings into a cooler.
That said, it works every time, it's been banging around in the back of my track car for 8 years now, still works great. It's my drink cooler for a normal track day. Toss frozen water bottles in, drink them as needed.
Well worth the cost to never worry about it.
For endurance racing, we bring a large cooler of frozen water bottles. They last a lot better than just dumping ice cubes in it.
If you've got the means, I'd recommend one of those fancy no-ice versions as that seems logistically a lot easier and one less thing to service during a pit stop, but I don't have that kinda scratch!
Cool Shirts are awesome, I love them.
There's two main choices, ice-based, or electrical cooling. The electrical cooling ones are super expensive (figure $2K+), take a lot of juice (like 30-50 amps or more) and even then the water they deliver is not as cold as an ice-based system. OTOH, you never have to change the ice in it, so that's one less thing to worry about at pit stops if you're doing a lot of endurance racing. The electrical boxes weigh more than the cooler+pump, but you don't have the weight of the ice to deal with so they come out a little lighter overall.
Ice-based systems are a lot less expensive, but you have to deal with the ice and the water. You can use block ice (lasts longer but doesn't cool as much) or cube ice (cools the most, but doesn't last as long). I typically use cube ice with the 19 quart Cool Shirt (TM) cooler. I can get something like 25-30 lbs of ice in there, and that was enough that it was still cooling after a 2 hour stint at the NASA Utah enduro earlier this summer (90F ambient). I have two coolers so for enduros we prep the second one before the pit stop and then it's quick to swap it while doing the driver change.
If you want to save a few bucks you can DIY the cooler.
I usually hit a grocery store on the way to the track in the morning (I typically stay at hotels rather than camping) and pick up however many bags I need. Most tracks also sell it on-site, although you risk them running out. Keep a spare cooler in the trailer so you can buy bags in the morning before everyone else does.
As far as the garments go there are multiple vendors who use incompatible quick-disconnect fittings, but in most cases the hoses are close enough to the same diameter that you can adapt them. You can get the shirts as either standard T-shirts or as SFI-rated racing underwear. They also sell "cool pants" (the opposite of hot pants!) which are SFI leggings with more of the tubes on them. I have those and they are an excellent addition.
There is a "cool-a-clava" that goes inside your helmet that I have never tried.
The other nice thing about a cool shirt is that you can throw a bottle of water in the cooler before the race and then pull it out to drink in impound. :)
I think they're super cool, pun intended. As has been said, if you want to save a few bucks you can make your own cooler. They're not that complicated. Get a good quality shirt. Buy several 1 gallon jugs of water at the grocery store and freeze them. Fill the cooler with just enough water to cover the pump. Cut the water jugs open and put the ice blocks in. That will last a few hours and keep you cool. Put something over the pump so the ice blocks don't crush it. We have even used a small child sand pail with holes in it. You can also set it to a cycle timer so that the pump is not running continuously. I set mine for 1 minute on for every 5 minutes off, and it's great.
If you want, you can build two identical cool boxes. Fill them both and then you have an easy swap when one runs out. I have not found it to be a sauna when the cold water goes away. I just shut the pump off and it's like the good old days.
If the pump picks anything up, it will stop the flow, so do everything you can to keep the inside of the cooler clean. One team I ran with told me about someone they had that would throw the bags of ice on the ground to break up the ice cubes, then place the whole bag in the cooler. Any small rocks or twigs stuck to the bag would plug up the pump. Most pumps have a screen now, but it wouldn't take much to cover the screen.
Also, when I'm running in an endurance race, I'll cycle the switch on and off five or six times during the course of two hours. Tends to save the ice a little longer. I just ran at Harris Hill in San Marcos, Tx. this past weekend. It was over 95 both days and I still had a tiny bit of ice left at the end of my stints.
Saturday had 40 cars start, and there were a lot of yellows/purple 35's. Sunday, only 25 cars started, and 15 took the checker, so I only had about 15 minutes of slow down time, and the Cool Shirt was a big help. I drove the third stint both days, so by the time I got out, it was the hottest part of the day. They work. You'll be amazed at how you ever drove without one before.
Tee shirt style shirt over a fire resistant undershirt work well enough, or preferable to just get new rated undershirt with tubing?
Spearfishin said:Tee shirt style shirt over a fire resistant undershirt work well enough, or preferable to just get new rated undershirt with tubing?
You want the tubes as close to your skin as possible, so if you're going to use a t-shirt with non-coolshirt fire-rated underwear, put the t-shirt on underneath.
With the CoolShirt-branded garments specifically, one difference between the standard t-shirt and the fire-rated gear is that the t-shirt has the tubes sewn on the outside, whereas the fire-rated one has them on the inside.
And yes, keep dirt out the cooler. Dropping the bag on something hard to break up the ice is fine, but don't put the bag itself in the cooler -- rip it open and pour the ice in. Also, when you drop ice cubes in the car, don't put them back in the cooler.
Spearfishin said:Tee shirt style shirt over a fire resistant undershirt work well enough, or preferable to just get new rated undershirt with tubing?
The latter, definitely.
Follow-up dumb question: how do the tubes exit a fire suit?
Spearfishin said:Follow-up dumb question: how do the tubes exit a fire suit?
Typically, the zippers are "double ended" meaning that at the crotch area, there is usually another zipper pull tab that can be pulled up to create a path for the hoses.
My opinion after 12 years of racing with and without a cooling system...
Buy the name brand shirt.
Get the universal fittings from McMaster Carr (if you Google it, you will see what I mean).
Build your own cooler. It's easy and cheap. Get a cooler with a positive latch and a gasket on top (so it doesn't slosh water out everywhere).
Just need a cheap 12v bilge pump and screw it into the cotton of the cooler with zip screws. Put a bunch of rtv in the screw holes. Run hoses out through top side of cooler. Drill the holes in the cooler very slightly smaller than the OD of the hose so that it seals when you pull it through the holes.
Put a wire mesh cage around the pump so ice doesn't smack the pump and you keep large chuncks out of the system.
WAY cheaper than the commercial offerings. Plus, you can get a cooler that fits your geometry better than the standard offerings.
This is the cooler I bought in 2020. It was $57.00 then...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07MTQ7LMF/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Here is the pump I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004LRBI9A?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
19 qt coolshirt cooler for reference:
https://winecountrymotorsports.com/products/coolshirt-club-system?variant=44500633387165
No firsthand experience, but here is a compact and cheaper cooler that works with your cool shirt. I will eventually get one, but I need a reliable car first lol
Hoppps said:No firsthand experience, but here is a compact and cheaper cooler that works with your cool shirt. I will eventually get one, but I need a reliable car first lol
Unless that has some active cooling system, I don't see it lasting more than about 10 mins.
To answer your question about maintenance throughout the day...
We would add about 1.5 bags of ice for the first 2 hour stint and it would last the 2 hours (if you shut it off every now and then).
At every 2 hour mark we would add another bag of ice and it would be good to go. You might need to scoop some water out to fit the new ice.
As far as when they don't work... it's just like driving without one. You should still have an undershirt on under your driving suit, so it's not really any different. Maybe 5% worse than not having it at all? That may be an overestimating.
Oh, DO NOT clamp the connections to the hose. If you need to get out in a hurry, you want the connections to pull out of the hoses and not worry about fumbling around with them.
This is not the thread I thought it was going to be...
Dealing with the ice and water is a pain. Especially during driver changes at an enduro event. That said, it is less of a pain than not having a cool suit. Heat is exhausting and anything you can do to alleviate it is worth the time and effort.
I used CoolShirt vests instead of the T-shirt but they both work well. I just find the vest more comfortable and less likely to kink a hose.
I refused to spend brand-name money on a cooler with a bilge pump so I built my own. I used an Engel 13 qt Drybox/Cooler and a Rule pump. It would keep you cool for about 2 hours. It has worked well for 10+ years. The dry break fittings to fit the shirts are available from McMaster Carr or Grainger as is the insulation for the hoses.
If I were still racing Lemons, I would be tempted to spend the money on a driver cooler from Chillout Motorsports. Their Quantum Cooler V3 is about $2700 and eliminates the ice bucket and mess that goes with it. It would have made driver changes so much easier and faster and saved hauling 100 pounds of ice to the track.
In reply to Toyman! :
I'm glad I'm not the only one...
Yeah, as mentioned up thread, we use frozen water bottles (i.e., grab pack of water bottles at CostCo for $8 for 128 or whatever). Freeze those. They'll last two hours, and make it really easy to swap out. Pull out old bottles, toss on ground, drop in replacement frozen bottles. They don't last quite as long as a single large block of ice, but it's a good middle-ground in cooling capacity between that and individual cubes that only last an hour or so.
Also, I don't run mine the whole time. We have ours on a switch, and I'll turn it on when I get hot 30-45 minutes into a race, then toggle it on every few laps when I need a pick-me-up.
Toyman! said:Dealing with the ice and water is a pain. Especially during driver changes at an enduro event.
...
I refused to spend brand-name money on a cooler with a bilge pump so I built my own.
These two are connected. You don't spend brand-name money on "a cooler with a bilge pump", you spend it on a product that is optimized for the use case. The Cool Shirt brand coolers have a handle on top, quick disconnect fittings on the side of the cooler, loops on the side for securing it in the car, and a custom bracket that's exactly the right size. The solution for driver changes is to have two of them, prep the second one with ice and water (and the maintenance additive that keeps it from growing mold) shortly before the pit stop, and then you just swap the whole cooler in about 20 seconds while the driver change is going on.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Toyman! said:Dealing with the ice and water is a pain. Especially during driver changes at an enduro event.
...
I refused to spend brand-name money on a cooler with a bilge pump so I built my own.
These two are connected. You don't spend brand-name money on "a cooler with a bilge pump", you spend it on a product that is optimized for the use case. The Cool Shirt brand coolers have a handle on top, quick disconnect fittings on the side of the cooler, loops on the side for securing it in the car, and a custom bracket that's exactly the right size. The solution for driver changes is to have two of them, prep the second one with ice and water (and the maintenance additive that keeps it from growing mold) shortly before the pit stop, and then you just swap the whole cooler in about 20 seconds while the driver change is going on.
In my experience, playing with a name brand one and one that I made, mine was way better.
The coolshirt branded one was too small for our use case and only lasted 1.5 hours.
I didn't like how it was connected, etc.
Plus, you can swap out your homemade cooler and get that benefit as well. And, you can build 2 of them for the same or less than 1 of the coolshirt ones.
Don't get me wrong. The coolshirt ones are the easy button and do work well. They just were not optimized for my team and my car. So I built my own.
When we're talking electric, what are we talking about? TEC arrays? I've been farting around with that in my lab (my overflowing garage workbench). I looked at the exploded image of the Quantum V3, and without reading anything at all about it, I get the impression that's what they're doing. I guess I could go read... I like the idea of electric cooling, even with inefficient TECs. You can run it at full power on the grid, and then dial it back once you're moving and you have some airflow going. Then you don't have to worry about remembering to bring ice.
In reply to confuZion3 :
You gotta keep 'em 'frigerated. Blue thing = refrigeration compressor
System contains less than 1.75 oz. of freon sealed within the rotary micro-compressor system.
As far as thermoelectric goes:
Probably more useful for autocross rather than multi-lap racing, but I wondered about driver-cooling applications when a vid about making phase change materials (PCM) came out a few months back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqxjfp4Gi0k
It's from the same guy as this thread: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/so-this-guys-rediscovered-starlite-wouldnt-it-be-useful-for-racing-safety/146183/page1/
Basically, PCM works on same idea as ice but does it at a different temperature: the material absorbs heat but stays at a constant temp while melting.
In this case, you can make your own semi-flexible 65degF mega-cooler-pack.
The material itself is non-flammable and I suppose you could even use kevlar/nomex instead of a towel, but there is still a meltable-burnable plastic bag around it.
You'll need to log in to post.
