Learn me: Crown Vics

In reply to 03Panther :

Right? Such expensive, maintenance intensive junk. After 18 months and 30k miles, I was still under challenge budget INCLUDING registration, insurance, 2 sets of tires, and a set of wheels. 

Of course I couldn't even pop the hood when I bought it for $500 at auction with 220k on the clock, so I had to have cherry picked a super sweet special one.

I still sold it for $300 or so when I was done with it to.

After it did leave me stranded when Pennsylvania rust did its number on the shift cable and we couldn't figure out how to replace the piece the cable connected to in the transmission because none of the holes were big enough to get the rod through. That part definitely did suck, but still, 250k miles and the engine was still going strong.I imagine if it had lived in a state without salt season it would still be going today.

RevRico said:

In reply to 03Panther :

Right? Such expensive, maintenance intensive junk. After 18 months and 30k miles, I was still under challenge budget INCLUDING registration, insurance, 2 sets of tires, and a set of wheels. 

Of course I couldn't even pop the hood when I bought it for $500 at auction with 220k on the clock, so I had to have cherry picked a super sweet special one.

They're a hoot to watch at HPDE events, too.

tremm said:

Maybe 13-15 is more fair.

https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/crown_victoria

Like I said, there's something for everyone.

For anyone looking to buy one, you know, to reliably get you to work on time and other similar boring things, I'd really pound this into your head:

19 gallon tank (I thought they were more like 16, but internet says 19), 15mpg, $3.30/gallon.

That's a 285 mile range, for $62.70.

If the tanks are 16 gallons instead, and you're getting 15mpg the range is 240 miles til you're bone dry.

Lol.

The answer of course is to get a longer commute so those turn into highway miles free of traffic & your mpg goes up.

(And for maintenance, you know what I like doing more than cheap control arms on the weekend?)

Your own reference material is not agreeing with your argument.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

First, ignore every thing tremm is saying... either has never owned or worked on one, or had the worst lemon I’ve ever heard of. 

Second, don’t price one from the ex cop car resellers. With your Craig’s-fu, you’ll find as nice, or nicer for half or less!

the rest:

Been covered but a recap:

03 started the hydra-formed frame with bolted on AL front crossmember. I drove a 92 back in the late 90’s... a real meh car. My 03 is one of the best riding car I’ve owned... albeit if ya like the ol’ land barge floatin’ down the road. Hold the road WAY better than the old 60’s stuff that “floats” like it does. 

The T-Bird had 8.8 IRS... has been done, but not noticeable difference. The Watts suspension ain’t parallel leafs!

a lot of folks like the springs in rear ilo air bags. I put off a small leak long enough that compressor died... but if I had put bags on as soon as it started... well I did springs, and miss my air bags. 

In reply to 03Panther :

I was so confused by your earlier post about a small leak in the air bag. Think SRS. ha!

Btw... Crown Vick’s, grand marquis and town cars from 78 to end of production are all panthers. Some stuff from 78 will bolt on a 06... not that you’d want to!

The change to the panther platform was all about making smaller cars. Harder for the young’uns to see it but the infamous look of the  “cop car” is a very small car in comparison. 

The managed to make it much smaller, and make VERY comfy ergonomics.. for front seaters! The back seat passengers do NOT like the lack of room! And I’m referring the the civilians! The others have more important things to worry about

“I went through Harvard... in the back of a cop car!”

One model of the town car was extended (I think 6-9”) in the back. Hard to see, but some folks say all panthers ( civilian) should have been that length. 

Cooter said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

It is actually pretty good for wheelbase.   I was looking to swap an entire panther chassis under my Travelette, and found some good information on the different wheelbases.  

Very seldom has any track width measurements, unfortunately 

Oh, 03 also is when ford changed the backspacing on the rims. Same 5 on 4 1/2 bolt circle, but older rims (and modern mustang, to a lesser extent) will hang out past the fenders.

Course I’m old enough to remember when the young and dumb crowd thought that look was the in thing to do, but that was a long time ago, thank god!

We tremm said:

Visit a crown vic forum & read about them yourself. What I said isn't wrong.

From an owner, that knows lots of owners on many of the forums, almost everything you said is incorrect. And even on this thread, I think it’s about 3 or 4 against so far. Granted , I personally don’t own an ex cop car. The Grand Marquis was not sold with the P71 package. Or the taxi prep package... I don’t remember the rpo code for that. 

tremm said:

Visit a crown vic forum & read about them yourself. What I said isn't wrong. Maybe they're the right vehicle for you.

What year and model did you have so much trouble with? 

I did know a officer that had to drop out of a high speed chase to fuel. With your foot hung in ‘em they are thirsty, but so is everything else!.. the radio did get that guy; the officer was just kinda embarrassed!

Well, that got berkeleying weird.

Especially considering its kind of obvious I don't want the CV as a daily commuter.

Sorry! I’m just a detail freak! 

What are the plans?

and I sidetrack easy...

Mr_Asa said:

They were body on frame for most of their time, right?  Anyone know when that stopped?

Also, anyone have good wheelbase numbers for those years, or know where I can find them?

Any other general info on the frame and suspension would be cool.

To answer original question, finally:

https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1635622

and  wheelbase is 114.5”

For 92-97:
Front track:
62.8"
Rear track:
63.3"

98-02:
front:
63.4"
rear:
65.3”

03 up track width is about the same, although suspension and rear axle are wider due to wheel offset. 

And 03 up have the hydro formed frame... that is supposed to be a good thing. Above my knowledge why.  And the watts link rear - if not first year, improved. Not sure; haven’t needed to know. But more aluminum prices in front and rear suspension. 

Cop cars, (p71) got the aluminum driveshaft, due to harmonics in the higher driveshaft rpms due to rear gear. 

03Panther said:

Sorry! I’m just a detail freak! 

What are the plans?

and I sidetrack easy...

It is still very much up in the air, but a body swap for sure.  Probably a truck.  Won't use the mod motor

I do need to look up what the mod motors weigh

Does it make sense to want to dump the motor (and I assume trans at that point) and the rear axle and the body?  You've got a frame and front suspension at that point, right?  

I've wondered how decent the front suspension is.  It seems like these might be good for front knuckle donors for various projects.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

My original thought was bringing an F150 to the challenge but the twin I-beam, while rugged the North Cascades, is crap for handling. 

The IRS is an idle thought, while the rest is more an actual plan.

Sonic said:

Cooter said:

Another tip is that the WB is fairly easy to alter on them, as it is a perimeter frame with basically a box tube connecting the front and rear sections under the sills.

I feel like you could take that frame and whatnot right there, shorten it and add some square tubing and sheet metal and have yourself a "super duper 7" locost kind of thing.  It would probably be pretty fast.  And cheap. 

I feel like you could take a sheet of plywood, some lawn chairs, a gas can, and a steering column and scare yourself berking silly with that.

I had one, an '09 with 130k--I put about 15k on it, returning in the low 20s for MPGs with the LSD-equipped 3.27 rear end. Super comfy highway cruiser, fun V8 noises, and competent handling for what they are. 

Downside? Getting mistaken as a cop gets old quick, unless of course you're a weirdo who gets their jollies pretending to be one. See also: nearly every member from a Panther-specific forum.

Seriously good cars, though. 

"I feel like you could take a sheet of plywood, some lawn chairs, a gas can, and a steering column and scare yourself berking silly with that."

That there is a true GRM statement if I ever heard one. And I agree entirely.

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

My original thought was bringing an F150 to the challenge but the twin I-beam, while rugged the North Cascades, is crap for handling. 

The IRS is an idle thought, while the rest is more an actual plan.

I suspected that is where this thread was going.

There is no point in swapping the whole chassis under an F series.   Just swap the front suspension from an '03 and up onto your existing chassis.    That is where the CV swap originally started.  The width of the front cross member is close enough to the width of the F series frame for a comparatively easy swap to get rid of the straight axle from earlier Ford trucks.    Then people started to swap out the Twin I Beam in later trucks, as the front frame widths are really close.

This is a Vic suspension swap  that s going under a '67, replacing the original straight axle.


And this is a swap in progress under an '81, replacing the Twin I Beam.



As you can see, the crossmember from the '03 and up fits the frame width pretty well, which allows the suspension swap to be an easy swap.



Pictured is my friend's '61 Unibody with one of the earliest Crown Vic swaps.   The truck drives like a modern automobile.

There are also templates to be had, to cut the F series crossmember,  and bolt in the 03 up crossmember... that is wheel to wheel complete panther!

i see them fairly often down here for 375 to 425 complete. One had T-Bird irs with it $400 for both. (Easier to put the irs in the fSeries than a Vic)

for full chassis swap, go farther outside the box than a ford truck!

you posted a Willis from Everglades experiment station!!!