Learn me long distance car buying trust

I've located my one-of-about-200-in-the-US unicorn, and it's about 250 miles away. I contacted the seller through eBay and we had an excellent talk about cars in general, and it concluded with me asking if had a number in mind, which he stated. I said that I'd buy it at that price pending a pre-purchase inspection.

I've found a shop less than a mile from him to do it, he's willing to take the car - but says he won't end the auction without a wire transfer in the full amount.

I'm quite confident the car is as described - but as one who's sold, bought and horse-traded all manner of stuff, I've always done it by deposit to lock the deal - showing up in person to do the transaction, signing title and handing over funds or initiating wire transfer while we're at the seller's bank, dealing w/ a transfer tag, and driving home.

The notion of wiring $12.5k to someone who holds title and vehicle seems to shift the trust farther toward my side of the deal than I like.

I've googled the seller and he's for real - when I called the nearest dealership about doing the PPI they asked which of his cars I was buying - so he's known, and he's affiliated w/ another marque club.

He's not hinky, the car seems totally believable, and the likelihood of finding another is about nil. Do I just give up being a control freak for once and wire the funds, then take the train up on Friday to get it?

How have the GRMs dealt with this?

i buy and sell cars all over the country. i never give full amount or ask for full amount until i meet the person or a rep for me meets him. i ask for a $500.00 to 1k deposit and that is all i give. that more than covers listing fees and time. i just sold a car for 21k and the i only asked for $500.00 and got the rest when we closed.

the problem with paying in full is if you get there and the car is not what they say it is then its gets ugly

Are you more afraid of losing the car to someone else buying it on ebay or that the car could turn out not worth it?

In reply to motomoron:

Not a chance that I would send a complete stranger payment in full before I had the car inspected, seen it in person, while he still holds the title. I would be very suspicious of someone who would not accept a deposit to hold the car. What happens if the car is not as described after he has you cash? It might be me being paranoid but I am willing to risk a $500 deposit on trust but not $12.5K.

I wouldn't wire the funds - I would suggest to the seller that I'm sending a non-refundable deposit that's more than enough for him to cover his costs of ending the auction early. If the car is as described, no problem, give him the rest of the money. If not, you're out a few hundred bucks at most.

Given the situation as you've described, I might consider paying in full, in advance. He's a known entity, the shop knows him, etc.

Another option would be to find a local attorney who would act as an escrow agent. He/she would charge a fee, but you could wire their office the money, given the seller confidence that 100% of the funds are present. You go inspect the car, then conclude the transaction with the attorney.

I've not bought a car via ebay, but don't they offer some protection? Could you conclude the transaction through them (since the car is listed there)?

I agree with everyone above

I did this recently - had Jaynen check the car out actually. The seller seemed legit from my phone calls, and was willing to take the car down after I sent a small non-refundable deposit. If he required a full amount deposit I would not have done the deal though, too many temptations there even for legit folks.

If the seller is unwilling to hold the car for a deposit, I'd just take the chance that the car will sell. Have him take it to the dealer for the PPI and if you get confirmation that it's legit then I would feel comfortable enough to send the money, probably.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I worry that the dealership knows him. I would want a truly independent PPI, and if the inspecting mechanic knows the guy that well, just how "independent" is the inspection?

edit: ebay does offer protection, but it sounds like this deal will go down outside of ebay for an agreed upon price.

Oh, and it looks like a nice car for that price for sure.

Jaynen wrote: Are you more afraid of losing the car to someone else buying it on ebay or that the car could turn out not worth it?

It's a car that I've been shopping for over a year - They're rarely for sale and this one has every desirable package and color, low miles, 2 enthusiast owners, and full service records. It's still at auction and I'm high bidder but reserve hasn't been met.

The seller is a dedicated car guy - he's bought and sold numerous enthusiast cars, and he really knows precisely what he has. He stated after we talked that he's genuinely interested that the car go to the best possible owner, and he's convinced that's me.

I just spoke w/ the seller again - he's taking it to a local shop to have a PPI done tomorrow, and will furnish the report and a bill of sale. BTW - I spoke to the local BMW dealer and they flatly refused to do a PPI. The service manager said "God forbid we miss some tiny thing and you have a problem..." so I found a large local independent shop w/ lots of good reviews. I just want a visual inspection, compression and leakdown. If the PPI is solid - no major issues - I'll wire payment, he'll send a bill of sale. He'll pick me up at the train station, take me to the DMV w/ the title and my proof of insurance to get a transfer tag, and I head home.

I've always done it w/ deposit and payment, as I said, but I've never bought anything as rare as this and I've never seen one this nice for sale.

bastomatic wrote: Oh, and it looks like a nice car for that price for sure.

Thanks for your discretion. I'll make a formal announcement if it ends up in my driveway Friday night. It's a very, very nice car.

250 miles away? Why not head out with a buddy/friend that can drive your/his car back?

I committed to a car in Indianapolis and was ready to walk away as I refused to give a deposit. I hopped in the car and drove....

In reply to Datsun310Guy:

If the PPI is good, I'll wire funds to get the auction ended and take the train up Friday morning. My long-suffering wife has followed me home on numerous car-pickup trips, but I have a self-imposed 200 mile limit :)

To the OP

I hate to sound too critical, but you name fits. Get in your damn car and drive 250 miles. I would never wire a full payment to someone. Is this going to be completed through ebay?

spitfirebill wrote: To the OP I hate to sound too critical, but you name fits. Get in your damn car and drive 250 miles. I would never wire a full payment to someone. Is this going to be completed through ebay?

It's not always that simple. Sometimes your life is too busy to drop everything in a day.

bastomatic wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: To the OP I hate to sound too critical, but you name fits. Get in your damn car and drive 250 miles. I would never wire a full payment to someone. Is this going to be completed through ebay?

It's not always that simple. Sometimes your life is too busy to drop everything in a day.

it all comes down to how bad you want the car. if it was a rare car that i had been searching for a year to find, damn right i'm taking a day out of my life to go get it.

I've bought long distance and always gone there to close the deal. Until this last one earlier this year. I'm in FL and the car was in WA. Lots of emails, crazy number of pictures and detail, he was active on a couple of boards and when I asked he gave me names of other forum users that I talked to privately that enthusiastically vouched for him personally and the way he treats his cars. I had two people on this board willing to go look at it for me. I ended up taking the chance and wiring the money and having it shipped. It will always be a gamble, but if you don't feel comfortable, you haven't gotten a good enough feeling. If the dealership knows him and all of his cars that's a great sign.

No offense but 250 miles is nothing for a treasure hunt. If I was looking for a unicorn and it was that close, I'd be thrilled.

250 miles? That's not all that far. Given what you're describing and the price, I'd go look at it, cash in hand.

Two weeks ago I drove 300+ miles one way for a Jeep Wrangler just because it was the color and options I wanted. But I talked to the seller multiple times and made an offer pending inspection, and paid in cash.

If I were in MD I'd go with you. Heck someone else on the board might ride with you, then you get to make a new friend. Win. Win.

Good luck in whatever you decide, and we expect pictures and full details even if it doesn't work out. I think we all like unicorns.

novaderrik wrote: it all comes down to how bad you want the car. if it was a rare car that i had been searching for a year to find, damn right i'm taking a day out of my life to go get it.

That works in your life but it doesn't in everybody's. If I found the car I'd been searching for, for 10 years, for $10 today 200 miles away, there would be no way for me to go get it. Some responsibilities can't be shirked.

The issue is that it's an active eBay auction and the seller will end it now - at a fixed amount we've agreed upon - the instant I pay for the car.

If the auction hit reserve, he may reconsider, then I'm in a bidding war. People will overbid by a huge margin to "win". For me, despite being a racer, $12.5k is an expensive car. For others, it's chump change, and if they just want the car they'll go $20k for it.

Also - the seller is a guy who has a lot of cars, and buys-sells-horse trades alot. He knows what he has, he knows I want it, and he knows this gives him leverage on the deal.

I'm pretty confident he's on the level - I've done my research on the car and on the seller. He'll get the PPI done today, and is sending a bill of sale/copy of the title/copy of the PPI report.

However -

• He will not end the auction on a deposit. This is not an option for what I'll chalk up to personality. His terms are wire transfer in full. period. Not cash on Friday, or a certified check on Wednesday. He holds the upper hand and is willing to exchange some of the power for me being the next custodian of a car he's owned and babied for 6 years for my willingness to make it a very easy transaction for him.

• The auction is live, I'm at 10k, there's another bidder at $10k, and there's about 5 days remaining. I'll assume it's plateaued for the moment, but if someone drops $15k and the other $10k bidder starts chipping away w/ a series of $250 increments, reserve will be met and it's harder for the seller to end early.

• I can get in the car and drive there - I can get on a train and go there tomorrow morning. But it doesn't solve the problem of him wanting a wire transfer to end the auction - I bank at a small institution and getting a large sum of cash takes a couple days anyway - and I hate doing huge deals with cash. As I said above - he's in the drivers seat as it were, and as such is able to dictate the terms.

• If I'm willing to comply, I get the unicorn, and while it's very, very unlikely there's anything hinky about the deal - what it costs is a couple days of me being outside my comfort zone and normal control-freak / OCD status.

• I'm smart despite having at one point been a vehicle sales professional, and I have a pretty spot-on bullsh1t detector. I'm not afraid of getting a car that's anything less than what's been promised - probably it's a generational and "tone" difference between myself and the seller - I agree with every comment that's been made, and they're all applicable to "normal" long distance transactions - but this deal - in my 30+ years of dealing - is unique.

• I've considered this carefully - I've polled this community - I've run it down with my wife who's great an helping me sort things like this out.

• The final answer is: He's getting a PPI done today. He'll send the report, a bill of sale, a copy of the title, and his routing and account numbers. I put the car on my policy, and will wire the funds tomorrow. Friday I take the train to his location, we go to the DMV to get a transfer plate, I drive it home.

• If I've berkeleyed up, it's on me - but historically I'm good at buying cars.

I was on the seller end of a long distance deal earlier this year. Once we left the bounds of ebay we wrote up a sales contract (I was in IL, car was in FL, buyer lived in MA and hired a shipment company) so there was at least a paper trail of how everything was supposed to go down. No problems at all, but could have turned to ugly nightmare at several different points for a multitude of reasons.

novaderrik wrote:

bastomatic wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: To the OP I hate to sound too critical, but you name fits. Get in your damn car and drive 250 miles. I would never wire a full payment to someone. Is this going to be completed through ebay?

It's not always that simple. Sometimes your life is too busy to drop everything in a day.

it all comes down to how bad you want the car. if it was a rare car that i had been searching for a year to find, damn right i'm taking a day out of my life to go get it.

My point exactly.

bastomatic wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: To the OP I hate to sound too critical, but you name fits. Get in your damn car and drive 250 miles. I would never wire a full payment to someone. Is this going to be completed through ebay?

It's not always that simple. Sometimes your life is too busy to drop everything in a day.

I bought a motorcycle and wired the money in full. It was't 12k, but it was close to 8k. It's a bike I had been looking for and was hard to find with the options I wanted. My initial plan was to send a deposit, then fly up and ride it home, but work schedule and other things got in the way. In the end if I wanted the bike I had to wire the money and have it shipped. It worked out, but there was some risk involved. I had talked with the owner at length and had a good feeling about it, but he could have easily been a con man and ran off with my money I guess.

Would I do it again? Sure, for the right vehicle, but it is a little nerve racking.

Let us know the end result of your quest - along with pics of the car. (What kind of car?)