learn me some snowmobiles/snowmachines

Its been cold, real real cold all winter. Its been 3 months since I've ridden a motorcycle. This is getting lame. Yesterday, I got to ride a quad up and down the slough behind my girlfriend parents house, and I find myself in need of winter transportation. While the quad was fun, I want something faster that can go further with less issues in deep snow. A snowmachine... erm snowmobile for everyone in the lower 48.

What should I know? What's a good starter sled? I want the sled equivalent of a dual sport. There's thousands of miles of trails up here that are only open in winter that I want to explore. Water cooled vs air cooled? Track lengths? Two stroke or four stroke? Good stories, bad stories, story stories?

One sled in particular I'm looking at is a 1995 SkiDoo 670 Formula SS that a local wants to trade me for my WR250R plus cash.

liquid cooled is the way to go- they are less finicky to the air/fuel ratio and less likely to lean out and melt pistons when you forget to adjust the carb when it gets really cold. i don't know about 2 stroke/4 stroke thing, other than to say that you have to keep the oil tank full on the 2 stroke. take a look in front of the local bars after a weekend snow storm and see what everyone else is riding..

my POS beater sled is a 1989 Yamaha Ovation- probably the slowest and heaviest POS sled ever made.. but it does 60mph on the trail and at WFO on the lake and always starts on the first pull.. it gets stuck in deep snow, and the little 340 doesn't like going up hills. also, it rides like a $3 plastic sled..

contrast that with my 12 year old nephews early '00's vintage Skidoo 380 something or other that i got to ride on saturday... it isn't much quicker or faster than the Yamaha, but it rides smoother and doesn't get stuck.. then there was the Ski Doo 600 something or other that my cousin has.. ho-ly-crap.. that thing was just flat out scary- i hit 100mph in the space that my Yamaha would be lucky to hit 30, and it rode like a Cadillac. it also turned on a dime and stopped even quicker.. yeah, i want one of those,,..

Try to find an 600 cc-or-under machine. The insurance companies are hard on the bigger machines.

95 Ski-doo would be one of the really old chassis I think Get a REV chassis or late conventional (98-99) for a better machine.

Just like bikes, there are simple, midrange, and high end performance sleds. The later air cooled Skidoo, and Arctic cats are cheap, simple and reliable. I have a 2000 Yamaha Vmax 500. It's a liquid cooled twin, and typical Yamaha, reliable.

No personal experience, but I've heard that after the nuclear holocaust, there will be cockroaches blasting around on Polaris Indy Trails.

i am also a Yamaha man the Vmax is a great machine but i have a phazer. i would look for something cheap to make sure you are cut out for it. anything from 1990 on most have good enough suspension for a newbie. Good condition cheap sleds can be bought easy. people buy them ride one season then they get pushed to back of shed and sit. as far as track length if you are on east coast short track for woods riding. west rocky mountain riding long track if you are into hill climbing.

Well i live in Fairbanks Alaska, but i moved here from maryland... i dont see myself ridong down to Denali or the alaska range to go bushwacking or mountain climbing, at least not yet. Just looking to tool around on the rivers and creeks and local trails for now.

From my experiences you need to buy either a nice new sled or some sled that costs 500 dollars because there is no in-between. You will spend countless money maintaining a sled somewhere in-between but some old enticer or a 440 2 stroke is simple and cheap and crappy enough to when your done with it you can sell it for what you paid for it.

Consider a few other things as well.

Reverse for example. That's a newish thing. Older sleds don't usually have it. Yanking a sled backwards isn't much fun, especially if you've got to do it for 10 feet. I don't have it, but I sure wouldn't mind it.

Electric start. Nothing like yanking on the pull rope of a 500 cc engine trying to start it. After a few pulls, your shoulder will tell you what it thinks of this. Again, I don't have it, but at least my sled usually starts with just a few pulls.

Heat. At least heated grips, if not a heated seat. It's cold out there, and you're going fast. You need anything you can get to keep yourself and especially your hands warm..

Personally, I tend to see sleds down in the Sub $1k range pretty frequently. Usually listed as running good, just old. Getting one that genuinely starts easily and is reasonably reliable probably isn't a bad way to start into the game.

And like everyone else in this thread it seems, I've also got a Yamaha sled. An old XLV540 I think.

Well, considering you're probably looking to get into this for as little $$ as possible, we're probably talking early 90's sleds. Some polaris' had reverse as a custom option, but it's rare. Lugging a sled out of a stuck is misery without reverse. With the snow and gravity in play, a 500lb sled easily becomes 1000+. A standard 121" or 136" track is all you'll need for what you want to do- don't buy into the long-track fad. It's just more stuff and more expensive parts to break/wear.

The 670 motor you reference is a rotax product. It's gonna be reasonably reliable, but it is a bit of a Bastard child of a motor. It was phased out after only a few years. Not that it was a bad motor, just that the classes started forming around 600's and 800's. No manufacturer makes a 700 class sled anymore.

I'm a ski doo guy personally, but I've owned them all. I think if you can find any old 500/600 liquid in decent shape (and hell, maybe even elec start or reverse), you can't go wrong. They all have their benefits and drawbacks. Just be sure to do a cold compression test and check the plugs.

Also, be careful- Sledding is the single cheapest way to get from 0-100 in short order. It's addictive, way beyond reason... To the point where I barely see my wife when the snow flies...

You've been warned.

Last time I rented a sled (in Colorado) the package included a 500 trail sled. But they had a 700 solo seat and a 900 powder sled sitting there as well. (or something like that, I am not a sled guy) The point is, the extreme sleds were available upgrades. My brother and I both paid the extra, who wouldn't?!?!

Here is your sled sir:

Oh that? It's an extra $20.

In reply to skierd:

Wait, you're the fella that jumped on his cycle and 'moved' to AK right? Also, I have no input, except I miss snowmobiles more than snow, growing up in New England that's what we did all winter...

I'd say you're looking for a touring sled as I'd expect you'd like handwarmers.

I'd recommend as new, the T-series artic cats(570 is the two stroke t1z is the 1100cc turbo)

For used, I figure it'd be hard to pass up a Artic cat T660 turbo or an older RX-1 variant for touring use. Modern touring sleds are like decade old sports sleds afterall.

I've never personally been a fan of polaris or skidoo......just artic cats and yamahas.

Like cars, everyone has their favorites.

Look at what dealers/ shops are around, and go with a brand with local support. Nothin worse than having to spend more on gas or shipping than the part costs.

I prefer skidoo, and for general use fan cooled is not a bad way to go. Simpler than a SBC, top end ca be done in less than an afternoon for under $100.

I picked up a 96 MXZ 440 fan with reverse and heated grips/ thumb for $1600 last year with 900 miles. At the same time I got a 2000 MXZ 380 with push button reverse and the warmers for $2k.

If you go skidoo get an S2000 chassis or newer and you'll have decent suspension and still keep cost reasonable.

Oh,

And any sled newer than late 80's will probably have grip and thumb warmers factory installed.

Reverse is a must if you ride solo. I owned a Skidoo Formula chassis. that is one heavy beast when it's stuck.

But, yes. Reverse, Heated grips, the 136" track helps as well.

Avoid studs if you want the track to last, they are only useful for ice racing.

Air cooled for simple maintenance as well. 2 Strokes with oil injection (run synthetic with a milder mixture...50:1) are probably your best bet.

There's a dealer for each major brand in town. Yamaha is right up the street from my house, Artic Cat is across town, SkiDoo is near my job, Polaris is in the Harley/Honda/BMW shop and is near the skidoo dealer.

I'm not looking to buy new yet, want to get my feet wet on something cheap and beatable first.

I sat on a few today at the Ski Doo dealer actually, including a 2001 that should be similar to the 95. Holy crap these things have evolved like crazy in the last 10 years. I can definitely see where an aggressive rider, at all, would want a sled from the later half of the 2000's. If I can't made a trade for lots of cash plus the sled for my WR, I'll keep looking and look for something newer.

While I want to like Yamaha's and any four stroke for efficiency and quietness, I think I'd trust a 2stroke with a pull start to actually start and run when its -20 out. Whether or not I should be riding in that is another story, but sometimes the weather changes quick up here and you get caught out overnight. One of my accounts tomorrow has a decent following with snowmachiners as its up in the hills a ways about 50 miles out of town, I'll have to pick his brain about what works and doesn't out that way since thats one of the main and first directions I plan to go riding.

Another thing to think about is what brand do guys you will ride with own. It's nice to have there experience to draw upon.

Also, a lot of sleds from a mfg will use the same belts and plugs, so if you or your buddies foul a set of plugs or blow a drive belt it is likely that someone will have a spare that will fit if you don't.

For example my 96 and 2000 both use the same belt even though chassis model, displacement, and year are different.

Got to take that 95 out for a test ride today. Seat has a tear, and the exhaust pipe has a lot of corrosion along with a decent amount of red silicone sealant where the pipe meets the header, and it doesn't have reverse, but it started from cold on the first pull and idled well. The sled also has had bar risers added, making the cockpit far more comfortable but included some sketchy looking wiring extensions to keep the controls and heaters working.

I didn't go far or very fast with it, but far enough to get a feel. The CVT engaged and revved up smoothly, and the power felt right enough. I can kinda feel that the suspension and chassis would get overwhelmed on rougher terrain at higher speeds, but I don't know how much that would affect me as I'm learning. The risers made it comfortable to ride while standing or sitting too. I'm not sure how much love I have for the 2-stroke, between the noise and smoke (though I love the smell), but have to consider the vintage of the machine too. The deal killer for this one for me is a lack of reverse... I had to turn around once, and it kinda sucked to drag it to turn around.

All in all, clear as mud (snow?) in the end. Gotta keep looking.

Opt 2: keep the bike and buy this kit:

http://www.snoxcycle.com/services

Get a newer sled. End of story. I'm not saying older sleds are bad, they can actually be reliable, but it seem like they wear out a lot faster. My friends who had 80's sleds seemed to be going to the snowmobile junkyard every couple weeks to get something that just broke.

My buddies who had the newer sleds (I'm going to say '98 on) seem to never have problems.

Myself however, am a glutton for punishment. I have a '76 Johnson Rotary powered sled.

i have been riding sleds now for 40 years. this thread made me realize how long it's been. i started with a Norway 440 with boggies when i was 13 years old and i have watched sleds come along way. i still dont believe in electric start, i do not get reverse no warmers of any kind. it is so rare anymore for me to have to manhandle a sled anymore. i know where i can go and cant go. i have seen so many people buy sleds and think they will go anywhere and i have seen them get stuck with reverse.

invest in a good snowmoblie suit, boots and gloves and a good vented full face helmet. after 15 minutes of riding i am sweating most of the time even when it's -0 but my suit, boots, gloves and helmet cost more than people have paid for a used sled

golfduke wrote: Also, be careful- Sledding is the single cheapest way to get from 0-100 in short order. It's addictive, way beyond reason... To the point where I barely see my wife when the snow flies... You've been warned.

This should also be stated in a different way . . . .

Sledding can also be a very dangerous sport. I started off on a 1969 Skidoo Olympique with a 299cc single. You could jog faster than that machine could run wide open.

Now anybody can plunk down the cash and buy a machine that will scare the E36 M3 out of you with speed and agility.

Be careful and just remember Sleds and Booze do not mix!!!

iadr wrote: K... can I impose on the hive mind? I am looking at a use for the drive belts. I see over 150-ftlbs going through those in the upper exchelon machines, but I'm uncertain I understand an essential thing about them- I see teeth on the inside (like a growed up timing belt), but they appear to transfer all of the force via a v-belt style action. Is that so? I also see wider belts, but none with vertical thickness, which I think one would want for performance use. So the sheaves that spread in and out- are they not transferring the entire power? It's like there are two stages, or...? See, I'm confused. I googled quite a lot about this this afternoon, without it clearing up Also, this just belongs here: http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=15354 And I can reference pics of the essential sheeves down about halfway. Also here is a pic of the belt http://blog.caranddriver.com/lemons-goodbad-idea-of-the-week-two-stroke-miata/ That style belt transfers 150+ft lbs on its edge? (that particular one from an older more junior machine maybe only half that, but...)

The friction between the sheeves and the belt sides transfers the power - the cogs are not there for that. It is likely that the cogs increase friction area while avoiding making the belt thicker. If the belt gets too thick then it would not want to bend around the sheeves and clutch.

In fact some of the HP belts have cogs inside and out. It helps with cooling.

SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Myself however, am a glutton for punishment. I have a '76 Johnson Rotary powered sled.

That's just about the heaviest andslowest sled ever, isn't it? My sister and her husband had a couple Johnsons back in the day, I think they were built of lead.