Learn me sporty older European wagons with manual transmission

One of the issues is the price range I'm looking at - $3K, maybe $4K for a really nice car.  At that price, most of the German cars I get are essentially mechanic's specials.  If I still had a driveway/garage, there's quite a few I would jump on, but living in an apartment I need something a bit more reasonable.  I do love the way German cars drive and always will, but sometimes logic dictates a boring Toyota.

I've never been a huge fan of the Matrix, always thought it was kinda ugly and a bit, I dunno.  Rice rocket-y?  But then again, it's a Toyota Corolla that will run 2-300K miles, with extra room in the back.  It won't handle bumps like a 5 series, but the price is right, the reliability can't be beat, and as John said, it can be autocrossed.  That's a plus.  

Captain, I've driven X3s before and I did enjoy them (I'd probably enjoy a toilet if BMW made it) but your tire comment rings true.  And in two years it might be a solid option but right now I should probably be smarter and avoid a vehicle with expensive maintenance.

I emailed the guy about the Matrix.  

edit:  just realized it's the XRS model with the 2ZZ-GE that has a redline north of 8K.  Hmmmm....

The Matrix (it's a minivan to me, dangit) has a lower redline than the Corolla or the Celica.  Or for that matter the Elise.  IIRC it is 7400, maybe 7600.

Same engine seems to go all the way up to 8500 when installed in a Lotus.  Interesting.

It is kinda like a small minivan.  I dunno, it could probably grow on me.  Financially though, it makes perfect sense.

If it is from anywhere near here, just walk away.

fuel tank strap...

Ah yes, good ol' Cleveland rust!  I'm really amazed sometimes at how badly Cleveland destroys some cars.  I keep trying to remember to snap photos whenever I see especially bad ones.  That's one of the things pushing me towards Volvos and Audis and whatnot - their galvanized chassis.  American cars don't seem to fare very well here.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

The Matrix (it's a minivan to me, dangit) has a lower redline than the Corolla or the Celica.  Or for that matter the Elise.  IIRC it is 7400, maybe 7600.

The first gen, or maybe just the early years of the Vibe/Matrix crossover have the Celica's 8400 redline. 

Great cars, I have the plastic clad Pontiac version, 2003 GT, and a rear facing kid seat fits behind my driver's seat just barely in a non compromised seating position. Even with the Michelin all seasons, it handles better than it has any right to, and isn't particularly fast, but makes all of the right noises when wound out, then it'll putt around town like a small displacement Toyota when you want it to. Controls are nice, things are well laid out, awesome cup holders, and lots of storage cubbies so crap isn't flying all over. 

Also, its as unassuming as you can get, and really, sort of ugly. These are wins if you like the occasional on-ramp Grand Prix or backroad romp.

But, it's not even close to being a wagon. I've considered selling mine and upgrading to an SUV or a full size wagon (VW, Volvo, etc.) just for that reason. My kiddo and I have snack time in the hatch often after bike rides, it's not comfortable. They're also quite safe, but that makes for giant, GIANT A/B/C/D pillars. Visibility is...fine, but not great. 

infinitenexus said:

Ah yes, good ol' Cleveland rust!  I'm really amazed sometimes at how badly Cleveland destroys some cars.  I keep trying to remember to snap photos whenever I see especially bad ones.  That's one of the things pushing me towards Volvos and Audis and whatnot - their galvanized chassis.  American cars don't seem to fare very well here.

Since you are new to the area, look up the Cargill mine under Lake Erie. They've been pulling salt from under the lake for about 60 years.

John Welsh said:

I'm amazed this Lotus engine wagon is still available. At a price under $3k (asking $3.6k) could be a deal. The listing has been up long (by current market standards.). That might help to translate to a cheap price. 

It is close to you too. The pictures are taken o. The back parking lot of The Cleveland Hearing Center near University Hospital, Euclid Ave. The Case Western Reserve University area. 

In a perfect world, this could be an out of state students car! 

I know you mentioned you contacted the Matrix seller.  I see that he updated his listing with words and pictures highlighting the faults of the car.  Some scuff, scratches and rocker rust.  In general, I see the car as being in "street fighter trim".  Safe for on-street parking or inconsiderate neighbors at an apt complex parking lot.  

What I do not see reference is pictures to the new tires that show brand.  Also, know how to read the tire code dates to verify their new-ness.  

Also not mentioned is in the pictures you can see the check engine light on.  Bring a code reader or take the car to Autozone for free code read.  I looked up locations and recommend this autozone:
3900 Mayfield Rd, Cleveland, OH 44121
Near Warrensville Center Rd

There is also an autozone on E79th but nothing good happens on E79th...Hood.  Additionally, there is a location in East Cleveland but remember, stay out of East Cleveland.

One happy thing about the new pictures, it shows the gas tank on Full.  People who have no money (and can't fix their car) tend to never buy a full tank of gas, rather just putting in a couple of dollars at a time.  

A CEL is worth an easy $500 off asking price right away.  I'm feeling like $2,800 migh be a price here.  Open up at $2,500.  Don't be afraid to say, "I wish it was an automatic."  It wont be the first time (or last time) the seller hears that.  

In reply to John Welsh :

Keeping the fuel tank full is also a great way to keep the evaporative emissions monitor from running, speaking as devil's advocate. They typically won't run any tests if the fuel tank is over 85% or under 15%.  Cuyahoga County will allow a car to pass emissions if the evap monitor hasn't run.

I emailed him yesterday and haven't heard back yet so I guess I'll have to try again.  My wife has also brought up the idea of another Prius, which scores a 0 in sportiness but 5/5 in basically everything else.  

In reply to John Welsh :

From staring uncomfortably close at my computer screen at his pictures the tires look to be general altimax.  Fortunately the rust doesn't look bad on that car - it looks like it could be mostly stopped and temporarily taken care of with sandpaper and good primer.  I'll shoot him another email asking to meet up this weekend and we'll see if he responds.

Also, with Pete's mention of emissions testing, I guess I should ask - what kind of emissions testing or inspections or whatever are there in ohio/cleveland?

infinitenexus said:

I emailed him yesterday and haven't heard back yet so I guess I'll have to try again.  My wife has also brought up the idea of another Prius, which scores a 0 in sportiness but 5/5 in basically everything else.  

N +1?  There is something to be said for having a reliable and easily replaced, if somewhat uninspiring DD and then a secondary "fun" car to drive on weekends and the occasional nice day. For me, it's my minivan along with a small collection of Little British Cars.

That's kinda my thought.  My heart wants a Porsche 944, my wallet wants an old Prius, so that Matrix XRS is a pretty decent compromise.  If something happened to the Prius and it wouldn't start (now there's a funny thought) then the Matrix would still be Toyota-reliable and have room for a baby seat and more and The Wife could drive it.  And it's autocrossable.  

General tires are a good value brand. Middle market. Not bottom feeders Solar or Sailum. 

I have never lived in an Ohio county that requires testing. It's just the big cities. I'll leave others to answer that. 

Emissions testing: For cars under 25 years old, every other year, or when you first register the car, you go to an E-Check station where they plug in a dongle and check emissions monitors.  You have to have all but one (maybe two?) monitors run, with no current or pending failures.  If you DO have a failure, the affected monitor must have run and passed on a retest.

No visual inspection, no roller tests anymore now that pre OBD-II cars have cycled out.  Even year cars get tested in even years and odds in odds.

He replied to my email, so that's good.  I'm going to check the car out around 1pm today on my lunch break.  According to his email signature, he's an engineering major at case western, which is straight down the road from my job, so that's convenient.  Fingers crossed, gentlemen!

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Thanks Pete!

Oh, XRs, nice. Make sure it hits the high cam lift. It was mainly an early Celica thing, but they're known to break the tips off the high lift bolt , and consequently it never hits the good lobes. It should be noticeable around 5700-6200 rpm. My celica rusted the subframe by the rear upper camber arm pretty badly, check the nooks and crannies.

In reply to fatallightning :

Thanks, I made a note to check those points.  Also I read the oil pump can be the weak point of this engine (primarily with over-revving)

The good news is, the Matrix/Vibe had a beam axle like a contemporary Corolla. 

In reply to infinitenexus :

The oiling issues normally come into issue under high lateral load. There's a debate as to whether it's a pump volume issue or a pan baffling or capacity issue. 

Also, are you open to unicorn hunting and getting something that checks boxes for now and can be modified to be fun in 2-3 years? 

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

That's kinda what I'm doing, I guess.  My ideal car right now is a somewhat sporty station wagon with a manual, which is already a bit of a unicorn.  Add in a desire for an aftermarket and preferably affordable maintenance and it's definitely unicorn territory.  Whatever I get will be just calmly driven to work right now, if it has a sunroof then maybe some lakeside weekend drives with The Wife on days with good weather.  After saving for a few months I would probably start picking up pieces one at a time and the goal would be to get back into autocrossing on occasion, probably building up the car for whatever SCCA Street category it would fit in - with this many miles there's a good chance any car would need new shocks, might as well get performance ones. 

I would be okay with certain sedans I guess.  Mostly I just need a back seat for the baby seat.  Did you have some specific cars in mind?

So I just went to look at the car.  Unfortunately, a guy was test driving it when I got there, and had taken it to his mechanic to get it checked out.  The guy selling it is a young engineering student, and apologized profusely for not updating me.  He told me everything he knows about the car, and that he used it for an internship for the past few years, commuting 45 minutes each direction - so a lot of those miles are highway miles.  He's always kept up on his maintenance and he's a car guy and wanted to modify the car a bit but just never really got the chance/time/money.  I asked about the CEL and he said he's not sure what it is but the car runs perfectly, so he thinks it's an O2 sensor.  We talked about cars and music for about 15 minutes.  Nice guy.  He asked for my number  and he's going to let me know how it goes with the first buyer and what his mechanic says.  So now is the waiting game, I guess.  But as always, no rush.  If this falls through that's totally fine - I wasn't intending to even buy anything for another two months or so.

One of the big issues right now is maintenance and modifications.  Right now I live in an apartment and we have a small parking lot.  So if I can pop my hood and lean over a fender and fix something relatively quickly, I can do it no worries here - installing a CAI would be fine, for example.  Pretty much anything more intensive than that and I would have to take it to a mechanic.  So, as much as I want a 944 or some other German car, ease of maintenance is a consideration.

How would you feel about a Lexus IS sportcross for family and commuting duty now, with the idea of doing a manual swap, turning it into a 1.5JZ and turboing it in 2-4 years? 

Finding one will likely entail a fly and drive and will still likely take months. If you decide in the next two to four years that you'd prefer to have a different platform as an eventual project, due to their unicorn status, I doubt that you would be able to lose money on one. 

For now it would check every box except for a manual transmission. They're reliable they're easy to maintain, but when the time comes you can go crazy with engine building, forced induction, limited slips and adding all of the steering angle you want.