In reply to Matt B:
My SC2 has 1443 lbs on the front tires. This is with the optional A/C and the big stock battery both way out in front. It also had fairly heavy stock wheels. A first generation sedan might be even better (no pop ups). I never weighed my SL1 or SW2.
Matt B wrote: Out of curiosity (and without doing the research myself), what kind of weight is your SC2 putting down on the front tires?
I was curious about this, too...
SWBO's brother has a 95 SC5, and the thing is an understeering pig compared to my MX3. Doesn't feel half as nimble. The MX3 is one of the best FWDs i've felt in stock form in terms of feel, tightness, etc etc etc... but what feels great on the street doesn't necessarily translate to Autox i guess.
The SC2 might have been a touch faster in a straight line when it was still running well, though.
Doesn't matter. Here in Atlanta, I'd still be 8-10 seconds behind Amy Smith & Barry Saney anyhoo..
I'd stick with the 89 Civic. The platform is really well developed. The weight is low and they're relatively cheap.
They've dominated for years for a reason.
DaveEstey wrote: I'd stick with the 89 Civic. The platform is really well developed. The weight is low and they're relatively cheap. They've dominated for years for a reason.
If the shakeup goes through, the civic won't be an option. That's why i made this thread. 
corolla? like AE92 or the newer s models? Matrix? Yaris?
I'd take a C4 with pushrods.
I'd toy with the idea of a 99-03 Mk IV Golf TDI. A power box increases the power of an ALH dramatically - not as much as chipping it (increasing the turbo boost), but still very noticable. Pin-you-into-the-seat noticable.
My main concern would be tires as the engine would easily be capable of turning a skinny 225 tire into smoke. Especially if they skip the LSD allowance. If they do decide to make LSD upgrades "open", then it would be very interesting... 
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:DaveEstey wrote: I'd stick with the 89 Civic. The platform is really well developed. The weight is low and they're relatively cheap. They've dominated for years for a reason.If the shakeup goes through, the civic won't be an option. That's why i made this thread.
Apparently Dave hasn't been paying attention... 
procainestart wrote:EricM wrote: <-- building the Audi 90 Quattro 20V to run in ST.Well, I don't autocross any more but when I did we had a guy running a 90 in HS -- he did *very* well in it. So an ST car would be cool to see...
This car has gotten FTDi and FTDis more than once. 
I had to replace the steering wheel (airbag fault code) and technically it is not HS legal any more, though my local group doesn't care and I still drive HS locally only.
It runs well on the RE-11s and I wonder how well it would do if it were prepped to the max of ST.
If your FWD ST car needs an LSD it probably isn't setup correctly. I haven't really seen any of these cars including Saturns really setup for ST. I would pick a Saturn over an SE-R. It really belongs with those cars wherever they get put, and I would prefer to see the FWD Nissans, Neons, and Celicas kept in ST too. Celica FTW!
Now if they just allowed all stock LSDs in ST, no question, I'm buying some 225/50R16s for my 325i. Of course they are probably going to class all the BMWs in STX, so that won't be an option either.
HStockSolo wrote: If your FWD ST car needs an LSD it probably isn't setup correctly. I haven't really seen any of these cars including Saturns really setup for ST. I would pick a Saturn over an SE-R. It really belongs with those cars wherever they get put, and I would prefer to see the FWD Nissans, Neons, and Celicas kept in ST too. Celica FTW! Now if they just allowed all stock LSDs in ST, no question, I'm buying some 225/50R16s for my 325i. Of course they are probably going to class all the BMWs in STX, so that won't be an option either.
They haven't ditched the pre-94 Celicas. Yet.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:DaveEstey wrote: I'd stick with the 89 Civic. The platform is really well developed. The weight is low and they're relatively cheap. They've dominated for years for a reason.If the shakeup goes through, the civic won't be an option. That's why i made this thread.
Facepalm I hope the shakedown doesn't go through haha
steverife wrote:White_and_Nerdy wrote: It's funny - with a couple of mods I'm making this year, my Miata goes from ES to STS. If I take those same 15" wheels and put them on my bone stock 91 SE-R, with the proposed rule change it, too, would run in STS. I suspect with other ST legal mods, the SE-R could run circles around many of the current STS cars, particularly on larger, more open courses where it would have a power advantage. But on tight, twisty courses like we run locally I think the Miata's handling would still win.You'd be wrong.
what he said.... we had a relatively built SE-R here in Asheville... several yrs ago... (not totally built mind you ... just the usual things.. springs, sways, CAI , header, bushings, shocks...) it played pretty much side-by-side with my Integra and a 2.5 RS... all of us running second fiddle to a mildly build but insanely driven Civic...
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I think the ZX2 S/R would be the best ST car
Especially a yellow one.
ST_ZX2 wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I think the ZX2 S/R would be the best ST carEspecially a yellow one.
Yeah, you're sitting pretty if the shakeup goes through, aren't you?
I STILL think an EGT setup properly would be just as fast, but i don't know if i'll have a chance to prove it.
I believe the EGT is on the chopping block for the bump to STS as well, thanks to Will Kalman.
Per Schroeder wrote: I believe the EGT is on the chopping block for the bump to STS as well, thanks to Will Kalman.
Hrmmm... not familiar with that car... he's not the Silver one that used to run FSP, is he?
(EDIT)
Yep, that's him.
http://public.fotki.com/makofoto/solo_ii/san_diego_national/art.html
The EGT is indeed a bit lighter, and the engine is a bit more revvy...the ZX2 has a bit better mid-range and about 100# heavier. Our car with AC weighs about 2350. A base ZX2 could have an AC delete and be legal, but it would have rear drums instead of the S/R discs...all S/Rs had AC. Pretty much all of the other S/R stuff, with the exception of the Centerforce Clutch is free in ST. Point being the S/R package does not really make a base ZX2 any better for ST purposes.
The Saturn is lighter from what I can tell--I don't know much about the potential of the motors in those, but it would seem a good choice of the cars not on the block...as I am sure we are "on the bubble" right now...at least if Per's intel is accurate. I would guess that teh 90-94 Protege (thinking David Avard) is too...
Whoa.... 2350? Hell, maybe my EGT is lighter than i thought.
You know my build... think 2200lbs or less is outside the realm of possibility? A/C and PS removed, Corbeau seats, and the all aluminum KLZE w/ aftermarket header/exhaust and an 8lb battery...
That would be EXCITING. 
Hell, i'm losing almost 20lbs off the flywheel!
92 Integra RS. Basically just copy the winning Spec Civic suspension formula with a few tweaks. Suspension is largely the same under a little heavier car with a little more torque.
dinger wrote: 92 Integra RS. Basically just copy the winning Spec Civic suspension formula with a few tweaks. Suspension is largely the same under a little heavier car with a little more torque.
Integra is on the naughty list.
ST_ZX2 wrote: The Saturn is lighter from what I can tell--I don't know much about the potential of the motors in those, but it would seem a good choice of the cars not on the block...
They have potential. The biggest problem in ST might be that the throttle body is a little small. Mine feels plenty strong if a bit peaky. Removing the rev limiter would be required. It kicks in right at 53 mph.
A couple of cars came to mind as I was out-and-about this morning...a mid-90s Mirage/Colt/Summit coupe with a twin cam 1.8 (?)...and a Toyota Paseo. The Mitsusumcolt looks pretty light--low 2000's, and I would assume the 1.8 makes ample power...I think stock it was around 125-130. The Paseo made only around 100 hp...but was a very revvy motor, and like the EF would be likely able to put it all down. They were also around 2100 pounds--so in ST trim, could be pretty light. All comes down to getting parts and therefore how complicated a build would be.
I think that a 2300+pound car will be on the porky side of the faster cars--contend perhaps, but not dominate.
I still believe the best cars will be low 2000 pound lightweights (above, Accent GT etc.)...not the Probe GTs/MX6s or similar. A 225 tire will keep that from happening; all the power in the world is of no use unless you can put it down...and the lighter cars will still corner better. The lighest car that can fit a 225/7.5 combo and have "useful power" will prevail, IMO.
In reply to ST_ZX2:
I am setting up a 98 Integra LS for ST. That is what I choose.
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