I'd like to put a K20 or K24 into 2 different cars- an AW11, and an NA. But all things K-swap are welcome here!
These will be DIY challenge priced builds for a High School team, so K-Miata might not help too much.
Please share links, advice, pitfalls, thoughts. Links to potential donor cars are appreciated. Any links to a simple step-by-step build for an AW11 would be terrific!
Anyone done it? What are the challenges? Thoughts on the K20 vs the K24?
Thanks!
general k20's are cheaper than k24's
https://www.huxracing.com/mr2-aw11-84-89-kswap-faq
http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/102793-K24-Swap
decent general k swap resource https://www.hybrid-racing.com/pages/the-ultimate-k-swap-guide
In reply to MrChaos :
Excellent links. Thanks!
it seems like you can get adapter plates to run the toyota transmissions so you dont need the axles but the adapters plus transmission plus flywheel and clutch would likely make the axles the better option as k series manuals are a relatively known factor strength and availability wise.
The aw11 will likely be much easier than the Miata since its still a basic fwd drivetrain and the miata will need an adapter plate no matter what.
AW11 will be much easier than an NA.
I disagree that K20s are cheaper than K24s, not if we're talking about the ones worth having (real VTEC aka 3 lobe cams). You're basically shopping 02-06 RSX Type S and 06-11 Civic Si engines vs 04-08 TSX. The lesser K20s and K24s are not really worth swapping unless you plan on boost, or doing things like running a VTEC killer setup (running a "real VTEC" 3 lobe camshaft locked into the big lobe).
TSX motors can be found at salvage yards, the RSX-S and Civic Si not so much. I bought my 07 TSX lockblock for $200 CAD from a U-pull yard.
What are your power goals? The K series transmissions are not strong like the B series trans, they get iffy in the 500+whp range. Maybe lower in a chassis like a AW11 that will actually hook.
The challenges of the longitudinal RWD swaps is oil control and intake manifold setup. Speed Academy on YouTube has a K24 240SX that goes into this a bit. You need lots of baffling if you're going to be pulling decent G forces in directions the engine wasn't designed to experience. The intake manifold solution is also difficult as all the FWD intakes put the throttle body into the firewall or brake booster. Speed Academy modified an S2000 intake if I remember correctly. There's also a ChumpCar MK2 Supra with a K24 swap that ended up hitting the easy button and buying the K-miata intake manifold that was recently introduced.
Build thread here
https://www.celicasupra.com/forums/showthread.php?71691-Lemons-Mk2-Build/page117
https://www.k20a.org/threads/mkii-supra-endurance-car.221050/
I did some research on this, and came away disappointed. First, the Honda tax is real. I couldn't find a decent donor within challenge budget. YRMV.
Here's an X1/9 K swap to whet your appetite on the MR2.
Your idea is indeed awesome, and worth pursuing.
In reply to Run_Away :
i mean he is talking a challenge car so any k with a manual should work
My only comment is that a K looks like someone left their toolbox in the engine bay :) It's just not a sexy looking engine.
Lots of interesting K swap parts at SEMA. It really is turning into the four cylinder LS. I cannot help at all with tech but I look on with interest.
Curious about this thread. The miata K swaps that are tracked seem to live pretty short lives, even with baffling.
Here Mr. Hollis says his last motor met its end due to a dropped valve:
My first project will be the AW11. Later perhaps an NA.
There is lots of documentation for the NA online. Not so much for the AW11.
MrChaos said:decent general k swap resource https://www.hybrid-racing.com/pages/the-ultimate-k-swap-guide
It says "free download" but I don't see where to actually download it.
Knurled. said:MrChaos said:decent general k swap resource https://www.hybrid-racing.com/pages/the-ultimate-k-swap-guide
It says "free download" but I don't see where to actually download it.
i had to turn off my adblock and then it let me put in an email and they send it to you. but here is a link to it not from them https://www.maxrev.de/viewtopic,mode,attach,id,393703.htm
Is an Accusump very helpful keeping these motors in a longitudinal setup alive besides baffling?
Following... K swap is a strong contender for my NA.
I just did a K24A2 swap into my 89 Civic hatch track car. Aside from the mounts, everything was done from scratch and on the cheap. I learned some lessons the easy way, some the hard way, happy to share whatever I can, so if you have specific questions, those help in making my response helpful.
There are basically 2 motors, each with or without the good VTEC.
K20A3: 2.0 with crappy VTEC, found in base RSX and 02-05 Civic, 160hp, 135ish TQ, redline 6800
K20A2/Z1/A3: 2.0 with good VTEC, found in RSX-S, 06-11 Civic Si, 200-210hp, 142tq, redline 8000
K24A4: 2.4 with crappy VTEC, found in 03-07 Accord and CRV and Element, 160hp, 142tq with more area under the curve than K20A3, redline 6800
K24A2: 2.4 with good VTEC, 04-09 Acura TSX, 200hp, 168tq, redline 7100. This is the hot one.
The K24s have more torque and are generally more available. The non good VTEC motors are much much cheaper and more available. The bargain sleeper is the K24 from the Accord/CRV/Element as they are in everyhting and nobody really wants them, unlike the K24A2 from the Acura TSX which is the same thing with the good VTEC head.
For wiring, there are 2 options: 02-04 RSX wiring with Hondata or 05-06 Accord/03-06 Element with Ktuner. The later stuff is less expensive because there is less demand for it, like I have 2 Element ECUs I got for $35 each instead of $200 for the 02-04 RSX stuff. You have to have a board souldered in the ECU to defeat the immobilizer and get a tune on it, no way around it, plus the tune is really important.
Tunes and basic breathing mods are really helpful. My K24A2 with only I/H/E and tune is putting 205whp and 185 WTq, with a stock redline.
RPM gets power. K24A2 can spin to 8K+, but you need to get an RSX-S oil pump to avoid cavitation and a high RPM intake manifold, but that gets you 20HP over what I have. I keep RPMs low to keep the motor alive for endurance racing.
Transmissions: https://www.hybrid-racing.com/blogs/hybrid-racing/k-series-transmission-guide
Having a 45 degree VTC gear from the RSX-S will help with power on the higher RPM stuff.
Here's a great example of a budget K swap: http://vtec.academy/budget-k-swap/ from a CRV/Accord that did really well on the dyno: http://vtec.academy/budget-k-swap-civic-hits-dyno-part-3/
Wiring for an 02-04 wiring swap. I have the changes for the 05-06 in my notes: https://www.hondata.com/tech-k20-swap-wiring
What else can I tell you that will help?
In reply to Sonic :
what about the K24Z7 from the 12-15 si's?
I want to get a K24A2 and put a K24-7400 turbo on it and call it the Xzibit.
Yo dawg, I heard you like K24s so I put a K24 on your K24 so you can b00st while you VTEC
MrChaos said:In reply to Sonic :
what about the K24Z7 from the 12-15 si's?
That's similar to the K24A2, with weaker rods, but harder and more expensive to do the wiring/ecu so I didn't include it as it won't really be part of what Paul is doing.
What about the K-hybrids? Where they use K20 heads on K24 blocks? I heard there's a combo that can get to 220 horse that waybut requires some mix and matching between Honda engines to work.
Tunes and basic breathing mods are really helpful. My K24A2 with only I/H/E and tune is putting 205whp and 185 WTq, with a stock redline.
That's berkeleying badass, Chris.
GIRTHQUAKE said:What about the K-hybrids? Where they use K20 heads on K24 blocks? I heard there's a combo that can get to 220 horse that waybut requires some mix and matching between Honda engines to work.
https://www.hybrid-racing.com/blogs/hybrid-racing/k20-k24-hybrid-engine-build-guide
This thread is really delivering- thanks!
There a lot of meat to dig into here, and I haven’t had the time yet. But very helpful!
I am, however, getting a little lost in the alphabet soup of all things “K”. I thought there were basically 2 engines- the K20 and the K24. I see there is more to it. Can you guys help me sort it out (by car models and years, as opposed to the engine numbers)
Thanks!
SVreX said:This thread is really delivering- thanks!
There a lot of meat to dig into here, and I haven’t had the time yet. But very helpful!
I am, however, getting a little lost in the alphabet soup of all things “K”. I thought there were basically 2 engines- the K20 and the K24. I see there is more to it. Can you guys help me sort it out (by car models and years, as opposed to the engine numbers)
Thanks!
The K series engine page on Wikipedia is comprehensive enough with minimal sideways-hat commentary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine
What engine went where, the differences in the various alphabet soups, etc. I could have sworn it also detailed which engines had which exhaust style, but a general rule of thumb is anything "Earth Dreams" has the ports reversed and a single exit exhaust, which per another thread about K-Miata is not actually a liability.
In reply to Knurled. :
What’s “Earth Dreams”?
SVreX said:In reply to Knurled. :
What’s “Earth Dreams”?
Sounds like a recipe for the worlds most simple turbo manifold to me.
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