Unfortunately for many manufacturers, style and novelty trump effectiveness. But ultimately, the blame lies with the buyer. When's the last time you evaluated a car based upon the performance of its headlights?
Unfortunately for many manufacturers, style and novelty trump effectiveness. But ultimately, the blame lies with the buyer. When's the last time you evaluated a car based upon the performance of its headlights?
Personally, the cars I've owned that had the most effective headlights: 2nd place was my old '76 Corolla with it's 55/65 round sealed beams. The Fresnel lens and reflector threw a nearly perfect beam. Best I have ever had is my '03 Miata with it's projector low beams and reflector high beams. When using High Beam, the Low beam projectors stay lit at full output and the High beams simply adds its light to them but aimed slightly higher and with a bit more side throw. With the Miata on High beam I would be comfortable at triple digits at night on an open highway.
It seems like headlight performance took a dip toward the end of the last decade but is now improving. My 2011 F-150 had abysmal halogen headlights. But my 2014 SHO and 2015 Expedition have excellent HIDs.
I like good headlights as well and i've been playing with the idea of a hid kit for my f350 2005 that says it mechanically lowers the bulb for low beam and raises it for the high beam.
This just does not sound like it would work well. What's the best option for good lights??
jfryjfry wrote: I like good headlights as well and i've been playing with the idea of a hid kit for my f350 2005 that says it mechanically lowers the bulb for low beam and raises it for the high beam. This just does not sound like it would work well. What's the best option for good lights??
That'll never work worth a damn. HIDs in a halogen reflector will always scatter light horribly, as the light source is a different shape than the reflector was designed for. To do anything better, you've got a few options.
Option 1: find clear lens housings and retrofit projectors into them
Option 2: find European spec housings with a better reflector design and better beam pattern
Option 3: if the low beams are good enough but the high beams suck, supplement the high beams with driving lights
Also, as a note, driving around with the fogs on to supplement the low beams does add light, but it actually makes you see worse. The extra light is all up close in front of you, so your pupils constrict and your eyes tend to focus closer and you end up with worse ability to see anything more than a few feet in front of you. Keep the fogs off unless the weather is bad enough to need them.
dad's 1983 911 was a euro with US headlights (thanks to import rules.) Once he put the good German buckets back in, man what a difference...
I actually have leather in my 2014 f150 for one reason and one reason only. It was the only way to get HID headlights... I LOVE these lights but aftermarket installing them is ~$1.5k... The package was free at the time, but I had to get a leather interior...
I've got 3 Lexus. 2 98's (LS and LX) and a 99. The 98's have Halogen, I guess, bulbs. The 99 has factory HID and auto leveling. They are all the best headlights I have ever had on a vehicle.
1988RedT2 wrote: Unfortunately for many manufacturers, style and novelty trump effectiveness. But ultimately, the blame lies with the buyer. When's the last time you evaluated a car based upon the performance of its headlights?
When is the last time you test drove a car at night?
I would say headlights are now designed purely for style. I really wish they would improve their functionality.
I have to say this.
In all of the years of driving, I have always been able to see where I was going and I never hit anything. we have to keep in mind that a vehicle headlight is a moving thing, so a perfect beam is hard to come by. So anyway, let's keep trying to get the perfect light.
the lights in my Rover are ok. The lenses are getting cloudy and it is time to clear them again. I am considering a set of European OEM for them.
iceracer wrote: I have to say this. In all of the years of driving, I have always been able to see where I was going and I never hit anything. we have to keep in mind that a vehicle headlight is a moving thing, so a perfect beam is hard to come by. So anyway, let's keep trying to get the perfect light.
That's like saying "I've never had an accident in winter on summer tires, so tires don't make any difference".
More light is always better. My commute includes some roads with deer and no ambient light. I drive vehicles with poor factory headlights (like the aforementioned Dodge truck), retrofitted good headlights (halogen and LED) and good factory headlights (ND Miata with LEDs, BMW Xenons). I've also driven it with complete crap headlights (retrofit HIDs in pretty much every case). Good lights can make the difference between an easy stop vs a panic stop when a deer bursts out of the long grass - or the difference between a good day for the deer or a bad one. You can't avoid what you can't see.
I also have a tendency to do long drives as part of work. The color of the lights has a big effect on eyestrain. The color temperature of LED headlights seems to give me better acuity as well as less eyestrain, so it's more restful. You don't see this in online pictures, you have to experience it. The LEDs may not look to be as bright, but they just seem to work better.
I just realized that there's only one modification shared by very single vehicle I own. That's about a dozen cars. Lighting. I don't own a car with stock lights.
I work for a a major automotive lighting supplier and I find this thread interesting and a lot of comments....
ECE gets horizontal and vertical, SAE only requires vertical.
the US/SAE laws are horribly outdated and dont allow us to have fun things like matrix beam/glare free high beam systems and styled things like using opalene material to get a homegenous lit appearance due to the rules stating you can't add filler material. Kia/hyundai have read this rule differently thats why you see their up scale models with very homegenous tail functions. Again in Europe you can but not here.
berkeley Valeo!
ECE/SAE customer prefer different cut offs, we typically here have a blurred cut off line where europe runs a sharp cut off. HOWEVER with IIHS recent updates they are changing the game, normally headlamps were rated on consumer reports (yes the same people who think your toaster is sub par) but now they want a piece of the action and have developed their own rating system based on the intensity of light in certain areas. This has changed the way we design lamps and nobody wants a poor score to have labeled on their vehicle so the OEMs are pushing towards this as well.
the fog issue:
It depends on the customer (OEM) spec, some customers have fog lights that do fog, low light with high spread to left and right of vehicle, others basically have a headlight in there since it sends light far down the road. This spec varies from model to model within the OEMs even.
DO NOT put HIDs bulbs into a halogen lamp, tenth's of millimeters are important for the optical surfaces to do their jobs to meet legal requirements and performance levels. You have an entirely different bulb geometry with an HID and you move your light source focal point up to 10mm away that's why you see a lot of people blinding you down the road and when you get a sno storm or rainstorm, good luck because all that glare will not let you see while you are driving.
spitfirebill wrote: I would say headlights are now designed purely for style. I really wish they would improve their functionality.
this is a mix of true and false. The style tends to draw more even lit appearance giving more LEDs which is a more costly lamp, the automotive industry is archaic and slow to change. Not long ago they were paying for lamps because they were required to be on the vehicle with just a standard sealed beam which were CHEAP now they have lamps that cost the OEM over 200 each, thats why when you buy a new lamp its about 2000 because when they sell them to service they just multiply it by 7 or by 10 times to the stealerships and they pass the savings to you the end user. We do have HUGE improvements in technology and performance but laws are outdated and the customers are cheap.
and to Keith's point of color temperature - that is a fact. HIDs work better than LEDs because of their color temperature and your perception of that color. It basically spikes each of the RGB values soo high through the roof that each color that makes up the entire beam is with such intensity that your brain thinks it must be white. With LEDs you have a much colder color temperature which is to your brain makes it appear brighter - it just plays with your sensation/perception.
for example, if you put a 5000 lumen halogen lamp next to a 5000 lumen LED lamp they both are equal in light output but your brain will think that the LED is actually brighter.
end rant
Color rendering index matters too when it comes to those dark, rainy nights. Halogens do very well in this respect. LEDs can vary quite a bit and HIDs are almost always worse than halogen. Low CRI leads to things being closer to monochrome (like what happens with old sodium vapor street / parking lot lights). Higher CRI shows colors better, which makes it easier to see the brown deer standing next to the darker brown tree, especially when there's not a massive amount of light available.
Lights are one of my pet peeves, as well. The non-hazed, OEM housings in my Mustang are horrific at night, even with upgraded Sylvania bulbs. Our RAV4 and Odyssey actually have pretty good standard bulbs. I've never owned anything with HIDs or LEDs.
The tow rig 
These puppies will light up a lot of road. Wired to run with the high beams so I can flip them on and off easily - I don't want a dazzled driver heading towards me with a 100+ mph closing speed. When you're running around 10 tons of vehicle, you want to know what's going on waaaay down the road.
fidelity101 wrote: and to Keith's point of color temperature - that is a fact. HIDs work better than LEDs because of their color temperature and your perception of that color. It basically spikes each of the RGB values soo high through the roof that each color that makes up the entire beam is with such intensity that your brain thinks it must be white. With LEDs you have a much colder color temperature which is to your brain makes it appear brighter - it just plays with your sensation/perception. for example, if you put a 5000 lumen halogen lamp next to a 5000 lumen LED lamp they both are equal in light output but your brain will think that the LED is actually brighter.
Given those two 5000 lumen lamps, do you actually see better with the LED or the HID? Does that perception of brighter light with the LED mean you can see more, or is it a wash?
The usual comment I get from the LEDs in my Miata (7" round GE Nighthawks) is "they're not as bright as I expected, but I can see everything". The big Hellas on the tow rig get "good lord". And I like the sharp European style cutoff, I run European lights in a lot of my cars for that purpose.
spitfirebill wrote:1988RedT2 wrote: Unfortunately for many manufacturers, style and novelty trump effectiveness. But ultimately, the blame lies with the buyer. When's the last time you evaluated a car based upon the performance of its headlights?When is the last time you test drove a car at night?
Exactly!
My XC90 has Hids. They work well, but dusk is tough. They have no bright spot, which makes me feel like they are not on, but once it gets dark, I have light everywhere, and as far out as I need it.
Its an odd sensation.
We had a BMW X1 as a loaner last month. I didn't find the headlights spectacular, but my wife did. She usually only drives her Grand Cherokee, I spend most of my time following either aftermarket LEDs, aftermarket halogen or ND Miata LEDs around and the BMW was what I expected - good. BTW, the ND Miata has some good lights on it.
Rest of the car was crap, but the lights were pretty good even at 2am in a snowstorm.
Driven5 wrote: Aparently IIHS has just started evaluating headlight effectiveness this past year.
This. The testing and regulation regarding headlights hasn't been updated in forever, and prior to the mid 80s, most vehicles used some combination of the same four bulbs; small round quads, large round doubles, and the same two possibilities in square.
Now that headlights are so widely variable, the testing requirements haven't kept up with the changes.
Dad has two trucks; an 04 Dmax 2500 and an 08 Dmax 3500. The 2500 has amazing lights. The newer 08 lights suck.
In reply to Keith Tanner:
Those big Hellas tend to get that reaction even without being turned on... A 9" light that's 5" deep looks downright massive and that alone tends to make people think 
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: I don't know, Dodge could put Subaru to shame with their everything they've made in the last 20 years
I actually like Mopars, but I have never driven a modern one that didn't make me feel like Mr. Magoo. The only exception is our '12 T&C, which has the HID projectors. They're good, but frankly, no better than the ones in our '04 TSX, despite 8 more years of available development time.
curtis73 wrote: Dad has two trucks; an 04 Dmax 2500 and an 08 Dmax 3500. The 2500 has amazing lights. The newer 08 lights suck.
HAH - This. I put hot bulbs in Dad's 04 Duramax for Xmas this year as he had nothing good to say about them after driving their new Toyota Siena.
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