Looking for a Daily

Hi everyone my name is Casey and I'm new here, though I've lurked on and off for a couple of years now.  I decided to join since I'm seeking advice and experience that's impartial and this seemed like the best place to get it.  I bought a nice two owner '96 Firebird Formula about two years ago, I always liked the earlier LT-1 cars over the LS1 cars since to me the LS1 cars are too ostentatious for my tastes.  That and this one was exactly how I wanted one, black hardtop with grey cloth interior and the most important part being the T-56 transmission.  At first there were some things I didn't like and it took awhile to get used to the solid axle since it was my first car with one, but over time I came to love it for what it was and started doing small things here and there to make it more to my liking.  To make a long story short I haven't driven it in almost half a year because my fibromyalgia has progressively gotten worse and now it hurts to use the clutch and actually causes my leg to go numb and I can't even drive the car because my leg is fluttering and can't control the clutch.  I've tried everything possible to help; my seat is adjusted to the "racing position", lubricated all the clutch pedal assembly and that helped somewhat, and even tried a clutch extension.  It's just an issue of the pedal weight causing problems.  Even then I can't bring myself to sell it, I actually had it sold with the guy there with cash but changed my mind at the last minute.  Though I guess it doesn't make much sense to have a car that only collects dust in the garage...

Anyhow, I'm having trouble deciding on what I should replace it with.  I think if I'm able to figure that out it'll help with me doing what needs to be done.  All this being said I still want a manual of sorts, I'm stubborn like that, since an automatic deprives me of all joy and I honestly just rather be the passenger at that point.  I'm the kind I rather have 100 hp with a manual than 300 hp with an automatic, but maybe that's just me.  Something with a dual clutch and paddle shifters might be acceptable, but anything like that is way outside of what I can afford(I'll have about $6K to work with).  If the clutch is light enough, like in my brother's Shinsen Miata and A4 Quattro, it doesn't seem to give me any problems at all.  So it's more so the weight than the motion, if that makes sense.

So I'm wanting something that's a manual with a light clutch, has a LSD(or one is easily and cheaply sourced), reliable, and preferably RWD.  I also want something with good handling stock and has good aftermarket support for handling components.  I'm more flexible when it comes to the engine in it as that doesn't really matter as much, though having the option to easily build it with bolt-ons and tune, swap it, or go forced induction would be nice if it doesn't make 200-300 hp stock.  The one thing I don't like about the Firebird aside from the solid axle is the size and weight of it; I'm 5'8" so I can't see beyond the dash and it'd feel like I was piloting some kind of huge contraption at times, that and even though it's not heavy by today's standards being just shy of 3,400 pounds it's more than I liked to sling around.  So something under 3,000 pounds and closer to 2,000 pounds would be preferable, as well as under 180" long and 70" wide.  This will be a daily driver(for when I do drive) and I'd like to use it for autocross, though not competitively at first but more so for self improvement.

After months of researching until I'm blue in the face, reading forum posts, reading and watching video reviews, etc... here's a list of cars I have in contention:
Mazda Miata NA8
Mazda Miata NB2
Nissan 240SX S13 liftback
Nissan 240SX S14
Toyota MR2 SW20
BMW Z3 3.0
Acura Integra DC2 liftback

I live in Alabama, so finding a rust free example of any and RWD year round is a nonissue.  I prefer RWD for how it drives and feels, but I won't discredit FWD entirely and recognize the Integra is an incredibly capable car.  I think that more or less covers everything meeting what I'm looking for in my budget, though I could be overlooking something more obscure.  The biggest thing being the clutch weight, since clearly doesn't matter how great the car is if I can't drive it.  I know the Miata and Integra are about as light as it gets, and one would think the 240SX, MR2, and Z3 would be along the same lines.  I'd love to test them all in person, but I'm not going to test drive someone's car I have no intention of buying since that's just wrong to me.  So I'm depending on reviews and information for the most part, and now hoping to find experience and advice here.  I do know I really like the NB2 Miata, though I'm not too big on the convertible aspect as I'm not sure I'd drop the top much.  I have hair down to my butt so it's an ordeal if you're going somewhere and not just driving to drive, nobody wants ponytail hair when they're going somewhere and want to look their best.  That and it'd be nice if the car was still useable as a car, though it's not the end of the world if I'm stuck with about 5 cubic feet of trunk space.  So I guess is this a case where any I mentioned will be good, is one vastly superior to the others, or am I missing something entirely?  Sorry for the incredibly long and drawn out post, but I wanted to give as much info on my situation as possible so that it might better help you help me as it were.  Thanks for any insight you can provide and thank you for your time.

Smaller engines will have lighter clutches. Fwd tends to have a lighter clutch.

LSD is more common and easier to install aftermarket in rwd. 

Miata probably is your answer, but what about something a little older? Little brittish cars, old Japanese or German? There is also the fiat x19 if you want to get really crazy.

Welcome to the forum!

A Miata is a great choice, although focusing on NA8 and NB2 seems like an odd pair.  I agree with not buying a 1.6 car, but the NB1 is halfway between the two you specified.

On the topic of flappy-paddle dual-clutch transmissions, you can probably get a 2007-ish GTI with the DSG for the budget you listed.  It's not the most reliable car in the world, but the option is there.

The other two cars that seem to line up are an FC RX-7 or one of the FRS/BRZ twins, although I'm not sure if the latter are down in the proper price range yet.

Robbie said:

Smaller engines will have lighter clutches. Fwd tends to have a lighter clutch.

LSD is more common and easier to install aftermarket in rwd. 

Miata probably is your answer, but what about something a little older? Little brittish cars, old Japanese or German? There is also the fiat x19 if you want to get really crazy.

Welcome to the forum!

I love old cars, but I can't foresee anything from the 60's to early 80's being as reliable as a Miata or some of the others I mentioned.  That and it's an only car so I'd like something my age(26) or newer just to try and minimize used car complications as much as possible.  I can work on cars, but I pay for it severely now with the fibromyalgia so something that needs wrenching on all the time isn't really an option.

Thanks for the welcome!

codrus said:

A Miata is a great choice, although focusing on NA8 and NB2 seems like an odd pair.  I agree with not buying a 1.6 car, but the NB1 is halfway between the two you specified.

On the topic of flappy-paddle dual-clutch transmissions, you can probably get a 2007-ish GTI with the DSG for the budget you listed.  It's not the most reliable car in the world, but the option is there.

The other two cars that seem to line up are an FC RX-7 or one of the FRS/BRZ twins, although I'm not sure if the latter are down in the proper price range yet.

 

I know that seems odd, but there is reasoning behind it.  The NB2 has everything I'd want done from the factory(as far as NA to NB Miata parts and options from the factory goes), whereas the NB1 doesn't.  Neither does the NA8, but at least I like the looks of it more and can justify to myself upgrading the parts here and there to the NB2 spec like the seats, brakes, bracing, etc...  Whereas with the NB1 I'd always want it to be a NB2 in its entirety, so it just makes sense to get the NB2 in that regard.  It makes sense to get the NB2 over any period, but I have a soft spot for the NA since they're so cute and it'd distinguish me from my brother's Shinsen NB2.  I really think it'd have to be a '94-96 M-Edition for me to really want the NA8 over the NB2 though, since those are my favourite colours offered on the NA/NB Miata.

I can't have something unreliable, well I could but I rather not.  Which the FC RX-7 I really like as a car, especially the S5, and they're affordable as far as the non turbo versions go anyway.  I'd just be worried about the rotary, finding one in good shape and that was maintained properly.  That and I don't know anyone with a rotary compression checker, and that's like $350? or so, though if I had my heart absolutely set on getting a FC RX-7 or maybe a RX-8 it'd be a worthwhile investment.  Sadly the FR-S/BRZ is still in the mid teens, last I looked as I think I'd really like one.

Well you can't get much more reliable than a NA(naturally aspirated) miata anyway

NB2 Miata.

Everything you're looking for, and they're about bottomed out as far as depreciation goes.  An NA8, especially a limited run like an M edition in equivalent condition will most likely cost more at this point, and the NB is a better car.

I do understand about the NA though... there's just something about them!  I'm spoiled with owning both, but the NB is undoubtedly the better for DD, stock to stock.

Another option at the top end of your budget is an NC, but to get a really nice one would cost more than your $6k budget.  Higher mile NC1s are getting into that range, though.  If you don't mind some wrenching, if you can find an NB1 that needs an engine, a 2.5 swap is pretty reasonable and would make a nice package for a decent amount of $$.

I had looked at the NC briefly, but it'd have to be a NC2 which is definitely out of range at the moment.  As far as around my area goes the NA8 is still cheaper than the NB2, so I guess guys being too concerned about being seen in a NA by rednecks in trucks has its benefits.  Like my brother only wanted the NB2 because it looked the most aggressive, especially with the optional body kit his Shinsen has.  Like you mentioned and I touched on stock for stock the NB2 with the sport brakes and all the braces would definitely be the way to go, but there is something about the NA8 and it'd be nice to not be copying my brother.

So it'll be a daily, and would like to autocross with it some(but again for self improvement, not so much competing).  That and I love driving on mountain roads and back roads, probably more than anything.  The Firebird was fantastic for mountain climbing with all that torque, I'll definitely miss that...  Anyhow I only really have experience with my brother's NB2 out of my list, my uncle owned a SW20 MR2 but I only got to be in it a couple of times and that was years ago.  He said he liked the SW20 more than the NB1 Miata he had, then again he replaced both with a S2000 so who knows.  I know this is entirely subjective to a degree, but between the NA8/NB2, SW20, S13/14, and Z3 which would have the highest handling capability and best feel?  Or are they all fairly well matched stock, or does the aftermarket even them out?  I'd think the Miata with double wishbone front and rear and being the lightest would, but at the same time I seem to prefer a longer wheelbase closer to 100" though that's just what I'm used to since all of my cars have been around there.  The Z3 catches my attention for being the most powerful of the group with its 3 litre inline 6, and it'd be closest to what I have to the Firebird in terms of straight line speed and low down torque stock for stock.  I'm just kind of leery of German cars, my brother's A4 has been a money pit just taking care of maintenance items though maybe BMW isn't as bad as Audi in that regard though I've heard BMW is just as bad.

Well my brother just said he'd sell me the Shinsen if I sold the Firebird, so there we go as far as getting a Miata goes.  I just caught a Matt Farah One Take of a 2ZZ swapped ZZW30 MR2, I had forgotten about those.  Though I think I rather have a SW20 from a looks standpoint(or if I could find a factory turbo, power wise), that and you can find the SW20 as a hardtop or at worse with the moonroof.  I wouldn't want T-tops, I didn't even want them on a F-body so I certainly don't want them on anything else.  I just wish I could have them all to test on a nice road or track, but I do really like the NB2 Miata the few times he's let me drive it and it's all stock at the moment aside from new shocks and tires.

A Miata you know to be a good one is probably as good a choice as you can make in an all around package.  Sounds like your brother's car is a good bet.

I really like the 2nd gen MR2 (SW20?), but nice ones are getting pricey... especially turbos.  You'll definitely get more for your money in an NB Miata.  If I did get a nice one, I wouldn't DD it.

Stay away from the Z3...  they have more power stock, but don't handle as well, and IIRC have some chassis durability problems (or maybe that was just the Ms?).  Still... german car out of warranty...  depends on your ability/willingness to wrench on it and your parts budget.  IMHO, the Miata is just a better car.

You can reliably use a regular compression gage with a rotary if you remove the Schrader valve.

This is a very similar group to what I was considering after my e36 got totaled and before I bought my Camaro, around 4 years ago.

The Z3 wouldn't scare me away in terms of maintenance. I would say my e36 was no  more expensive to maintain than my 4h gen Camaro was and a hell of a lot better designed and easier to work on. That said, I think there are better options on your list. Also, if clutch weight is a concern, 6 cylinder BMW clutches tend to be similar in effort to the Camaro, as I recall.

I drove an SW20 MR2 and liked it enough that I could have easily ended up with one instead of the Camaro, had a decent one come around soon enough. The NA ones definitely arent quick, but they're sharp handling cars and feel a bit more "special" or something than a Miata. Bit more practical too, lots more room inside (I actually fit in one, while I end up looking straight at the windshield header in a Miata) and the two trunks add up to a decent amount of room. Downside is a decent one will be much harder to find, especially a slick top.

Enough has been said about the Miata, if you fit in one its gonna be a hard option to argue against. Once again, it's The Answer for a reason.

I had a 2nd gen Integra way back in high school and it was a blast when it worked. DWB Hondas are among my favorite FWD cars to drive, but I think I'd rather go RWD anyways if it was me. Probably gonna be next to impossible to find an Integra that hasn't been hacked to death 5 times over, too.

I've got an LS1 swapped FC, but can't offer much in the way of driving impressions as of yet. I just wrapped it up late last fall and I'm waiting for the snow and road salt to go away before I get it tagged and on the road.

How about a 300zx? RX8? Might even be able to find a cheap e36 m3 at the top of your budget. Are 350Zs that cheap yet?

Big difference between a convertible and a hatchback. The convertible is fun but the hatchback is waaaayyyyy more useful! What if you want to carry people or things? There is a reason that even wealthy guys default to the GTI. It's the do all. Miata is the answer here, but not everywhere. It's tiny. I mean that, tiny. I prefer to be in my bugeye to a miata. Keep that in mind. I love a big green house like a 2002, 911 of GTI. Just drive all and pick what your real priorities are. I dd a 911, and have for most of the past 25 years. But I've almost always had a truck too.

Rodan said:

A Miata you know to be a good one is probably as good a choice as you can make in an all around package.  Sounds like your brother's car is a good bet.

I really like the 2nd gen MR2 (SW20?), but nice ones are getting pricey... especially turbos.  You'll definitely get more for your money in an NB Miata.  If I did get a nice one, I wouldn't DD it.

Stay away from the Z3...  they have more power stock, but don't handle as well, and IIRC have some chassis durability problems (or maybe that was just the Ms?).  Still... german car out of warranty...  depends on your ability/willingness to wrench on it and your parts budget.  IMHO, the Miata is just a better car.

Yes, it'd be a good one since it's relatively low miles at 110K and he's been finishing up taking care of all the maintenance.  Just did the timing last weekend.  It's fun to drive and I think compared to a N/A SW20 MR2 I might like the Miata more, though if a hardtop SW20 could be found that'd be nice since I really like the look of them and I really don't care for any kind of removable roof.  Convertibles are ok though since at least you get the full top down experience and it's a lot easier to drop a convertible top than to fumble around with T-tops or a targa top.  I'll just have to keep a pack of ponytail holders on the rearview mirror for when the mood strikes me, haha.

Yeah I was concerned on the Z3 just based on specs, I know that doesn't always translate but still, since it had the E36 McPherson front with the E30 trailing arm rear and weighed in around 2,900-3,000 pounds that the handling may not be as nimble as I'd want but the power would help make up for it.  That and a German car that was assembled in America, not sure how well that'd work out.  I did read something about the rear sub-frame ripping off the car in hard driven 3.0 cars, that to prevent it you'd want to go and weld it in more spots or use an aftermarket solution.

wvumtnbkr said:

You can reliably use a regular compression gage with a rotary if you remove the Schrader valve.

Ahh cool!  Thanks for the tip.  Everything I found online said to use the expensive rotary testers, that's really good to know.

Furious_E said:

This is a very similar group to what I was considering after my e36 got totaled and before I bought my Camaro, around 4 years ago.

The Z3 wouldn't scare me away in terms of maintenance. I would say my e36 was no  more expensive to maintain than my 4h gen Camaro was and a hell of a lot better designed and easier to work on. That said, I think there are better options on your list. Also, if clutch weight is a concern, 6 cylinder BMW clutches tend to be similar in effort to the Camaro, as I recall.

I drove an SW20 MR2 and liked it enough that I could have easily ended up with one instead of the Camaro, had a decent one come around soon enough. The NA ones definitely arent quick, but they're sharp handling cars and feel a bit more "special" or something than a Miata. Bit more practical too, lots more room inside (I actually fit in one, while I end up looking straight at the windshield header in a Miata) and the two trunks add up to a decent amount of room. Downside is a decent one will be much harder to find, especially a slick top.

Enough has been said about the Miata, if you fit in one its gonna be a hard option to argue against. Once again, it's The Answer for a reason.

I had a 2nd gen Integra way back in high school and it was a blast when it worked. DWB Hondas are among my favorite FWD cars to drive, but I think I'd rather go RWD anyways if it was me. Probably gonna be next to impossible to find an Integra that hasn't been hacked to death 5 times over, too.

I've got an LS1 swapped FC, but can't offer much in the way of driving impressions as of yet. I just wrapped it up late last fall and I'm waiting for the snow and road salt to go away before I get it tagged and on the road.

How about a 300zx? RX8? Might even be able to find a cheap e36 m3 at the top of your budget. Are 350Zs that cheap yet?

Well if the BMW clutch weight is the same I guess that rules it out.  Though if your Camaro was a LS1 car the clutch on those is a lot lighter than the LT-1 cars.  I don't think the Firebird is hard to work on, a lot more logical than any Ford and Dodge of the same time I've been around or my brother's Audi.  Just the engine being shoehorned under the cowl that's the problem, but I'm fairly small so I guess I might have an easier time than a bigger guy.

Yes the SW20 I REALLY like the look of, especially the hardtop with the wrap around rear spoiler.  Looks soooo good.  It would be nice to have something unique, and like you mentioned the extra storage space could be nice.  I'm 5'8" so fitting into anything isn't a problem, it's funny how far I have to move the seat up in my brother's Miata to drive it.  The Integra was kind of a best handling while still functional as a car kind of deal, also why the S13 liftback and S14 are in consideration as well.  I prefer RWD, but I recognize FWD can be capable in cases like the DC2.

I had thought about the Z32 300ZX, but I've heard they're maintenance nightmares and they're on the heavy side.  That and finding a hardtop car is near impossible.  After the Firebird I'm just not sure I'd be happy with something like a N/A Z32 or a 350Z since they're about the same weight as the Firebird but without the magical V8, yes they have IRS which would help on the road but the weight and heft of slinging it around would be the same.  My brother has a Genesis Coupe(yes he has too many cars) and even though it has IRS it still weighs the same as the Firebird and it feels similar to sling around, so I imagine that's kind of how it'd be for the Z.  If I'm giving up power I want something light and fun to sling around.  I also thought about the RX-8, but the rotary just kind of scares me away from them.  Not so much the rotary itself, but finding one that was properly maintained and operated is probably impossible.  I think the only way I'd feel comfortable would be to buy one already blown and then have it rebuilt by a renowned rotary expert.

markwemple said:

Big difference between a convertible and a hatchback. The convertible is fun but the hatchback is waaaayyyyy more useful! What if you want to carry people or things? There is a reason that even wealthy guys default to the GTI. It's the do all. Miata is the answer here, but not everywhere. It's tiny. I mean that, tiny. I prefer to be in my bugeye to a miata. Keep that in mind. I love a big green house like a 2002, 911 of GTI. Just drive all and pick what your real priorities are. I dd a 911, and have for most of the past 25 years. But I've almost always had a truck too.

I'm disabled with fibromyalgia and I really don't have friends, so carrying people or things isn't really a concern.  Which I guess another thing to have mentioned earlier was ride comfort being a concern, the NB2 Miata rides surprisingly well.  The Firebird is really comfortable, really practical, handles fairly well, and has good power.  Why I liked it so much, kind of hit all the marks I want out of a car for the most part.  If it had IRS, was about 400 pounds lighter, 2 feet shorter, and half a foot narrower it'd be perfect.  So basically a LS swapped FD RX-7 is my ideal car, ha.

In reply to rezisehtnys :

Mine was an LS1, so I guess disregard  my commentary on the clutch. I was unaware the LT1 clutch was so much heavier. 

That's pretty much exactly how I felt when I was ready to move on from the Camaro. It was fast as hell and handled great on Konis, Strano springs, big sway bars, 275 front/295 rear tires, and was still comfortable enough to drive daily. But you could never shake the heft and lack of feel that I missed about my e36. I had it up for sale when it ended up getting totaled at the end of 2016, and then became the engine donor for my FC (which I actually bought from wvumtnbkr) project last year.

In reply to Furious_E :

Yes, the LS1 uses a hydraulic throwout bearing and a push clutch whereas the LT-1 is a conventional slave and pull clutch.  In all reality it's not that heavy in the grand scheme of things(like the Mustang Cobra I tried before getting the Firebird blew my knee out in three pushes), but it's just heavy enough to cause problems for me.  If it was just the pain I could deal with it, but it's the causing my leg to tremble and flutter uncontrollably rendering me from using the clutch at all that's the problem.  I actually had thought about getting a LS1 Firebird if I could handle the clutch(I tested one around the same time and I want to say it was considerably lighter), but finding a hardtop in a colour I'd like with the 6-speed in my price range just isn't going to happen.  That and it'd have to be a Formula since they're bearable to look at, the Ram Air Trans Am is just so... not my style...  I think I actually like the LS1 Z28 more than the LS1 Trans Am in that regard.

A lot of people underestimate them and like to write them off as ill handling boats, but they're actually pretty decent stock and can be excellent with the aftermarket parts like you mentioned and especially with a Watt's link.  Just can't get away from the size, and to an extent the weight.  Hell just look at what Sam Strano has done and continues to do with them.  I think for the money they're hard to beat as a total package, probably one of the best handling solid axle cars out there.  Anyhow sucks to hear about what happened to your Camaro, though it's nice to see you're making lemonade out of lemons and swapped a FC RX-7.  I really like the FC S5 RX-7, then again I really like the S13 liftback too.  I like too many cars, life would be easier if I were biased.

I dunno, I guess another thing as trivial and trite as it may be is I want something that makes me feel special.  The Firebird always did that, people always turned and looked at me even though it's not that loud(just an axle back) and I wasn't doing anything to garner attention(I drive like an old lady on the street).  That and the rumble of the V8 and how the car body twitches under torque, and how the shifter would dance around... just felt alive...  I love my brother's NB2 Miata, but I just don't get any of those feelings from it and nobody pays me any mind.  Though the times I've taken the time to tie up my hair and drop the top and just drive or I was going somewhere I didn't care my hair was up it totally transformed the experience.  I don't know why that is with the Firebird, but it being my 8th car it's the first to really feel special to me(and to make me feel special) and all of my cars have been 2 door performance cars so it's not like it was because everything prior was a Camry.  I think the V8(paired with a manual) has a lot to do with it, I like all engines but I just LOVE V8's for some reason(insert 'MERICAN joke here).  The intake and exhaust sounds are just so intoxicating...  I think that's what's really making this so hard for me, I really DON'T want to get rid of it...  It just sucks you know, have had so much taken away from me(and I hate complaining because so many have it worse) and driving my car was one of the few things I could still do that I enjoyed to help escape from it all and now even that is being taken away...

I want to thank everyone that took the time to contribute and offer their insight.  So after even more thinking, reading and watching reviews, and even some existential soul searching I think I've managed to narrow it down. As far as other cars that really "speak to me" there's the FC S5 RX-7 and the SW20 MR2. I mean I like the 240SX and some other cars, but they just don't resonate with me in the same way when I look at them. When I envision myself owning and driving something aside from the Firebird those are really the only two cars that stand out to me where I might get that same semblance of feeling special when driving it, or that same feeling of pride owning it.  Which I love my brother's NB2 Miata and there's still a good chance I could buy it from him, but I dunno it just doesn't stir the same kind of feelings in me.  I suppose the "When you turn your car on, does it return the favour?" is the issue at hand here more so than anything else.  Which I had a Celica I loved and a Supra, but they just didn't have that certain pizazz for me.  It's like for some reason I have this inexplicable love for the '90-91 CR-X, and my feelings of preference for the NA8 even though it's worse than the NB2.  There's no logic or rhyme or reason to any of this I suppose, it's just how I feel.  Your guess is as good as mine.