RevRico said:Hate flourishes when it isnt actively stamped out. It is no longer enough to passively fight against it, we have to take steps to actively get rid of it.
Ah yes, fighting hatred with hatred.
Hey man, Grandpop flew in the war because you don't beat the enemy with love and policy changes. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty. If you don't want to thats fine but please step aside for those that don't mind it.
Tree of liberty, blood of tyrants and patriots, etc etc.
I think the major reason people get away with hatred is others not pointing out that it's wrong.
Mr_Asa said:RevRico said:Hate flourishes when it isnt actively stamped out. It is no longer enough to passively fight against it, we have to take steps to actively get rid of it.
Ah yes, fighting hatred with hatred.
Hey man, Grandpop flew in the war because you don't beat the enemy with love and policy changes. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty. If you don't want to thats fine but please step aside for those that don't mind it.
Tree of liberty, blood of tyrants and patriots, etc etc.
Did anyone try asking them nicely to stop?
/S in case anyone missed it
In reply to Mr_Asa :
I attended 1 NASCAR event and heard the N-er word thrown around in such a casual manner that I started getting anxious and uneasy. Even kids. People used it as a common insult to even non-black folks. Did anyone call me that word directly, not that day.... But I never went to another NASCAR event and the backlash from the banning of the Confederate flag reinforced my experience. Do I think every NASCAR fan is a racist or that NASCAR is racist haven? No. But its just easier to avoid the entire thing rather than gamble with my peace or mental well being. It's tiring and I'm tired.
Perception is everything, I know. Unfortunately, some people get the bad end of the bigotry more than others. That will shape your perception and reality of things in certain enviroments.
yupididit said:In reply to Mr_Asa :
I attended 1 NASCAR event and heard the N-er word thrown around in such a casual manner that I started getting anxious and uneasy. Even kids. People used it as a common insult to even non-black folks. Did anyone call me that word directly, not that day.... But I never went to another NASCAR event and the backlash from the banning of the Confederate flag reinforced my experience. Do I think every NASCAR fan is a racist or that NASCAR is racist haven? No. But its just easier to avoid the entire thing rather than gamble with my peace or mental well being. It's tiring and I'm tired.
Perception is everything, I know. Unfortunately, some people get the bad end of the bigotry more than others. That will shape your perception and reality of things in certain enviroments.
As someone who has worked in the oval-track industry, and in the NASCAR pits, unfortunately, I, too, have heard the N word thrown around quite liberally and I've seen and heard stories of blatant racism. It's definitely gotten better over the years. The old guard has begun to die off. NASCAR and society have made it fairly clear that kind of language and attitude won't be tolerated. However, it's been a slow go to bring real change.
Just because a sanctioning body - or any organization - says they welcome all, it doesn't mean that the individuals that are a part of that group embrace that philosophy. Ultimately, you can't change others, but you can change yourself. I hope we all consider the fact that we all serve as ambassadors of our favorite pastimes, whether that's racing, cars or whatever other favorite activity you enjoy. The first impression someone has on that activity could be what you or me or someone else you know does - so make it a good one.
To yupididit - I'm sorry to hear of your experience, but I'm glad you shared that uneasy situation. Some are unaware of what goes on, but we need to recognize that it does happen.
93EXCivic said:STM317 said:Didn't JG or somebody from the magazine recently comment on the FR-S oilpan/engine issues talking about how important it was to avoid jumping to conclusions before all of the facts are known? And yet..."Grindr sponsors the first openly gay NHRA Pro driver" seems like it could've been the headline here, rather than implying a low level hate crime without all of the facts.
I don't see how the title "Lost race gear? Grindr to the rescue" somehow implies a low level hate crime.
As the guy who wrote the headline, I'd have to agree.
Dude's gear stolen.
Dude gets help.
In reply to David S. Wallens :
Can I ask how the stolen stuff is relevant enough now to merit bringing up? When I google this guy's name and "stolen", the first dozen or so results are all headlines celebrating how he's breaking barriers this month. There's no mention of stolen items in his quote that you used, or the Out Motorsports article about him that you alluded to and quoted.
The only place that I've found anything about his stolen stuff was his social media back on Feb 20:
Somebody stole a duffel bag out of a rental car in the pits. I'm honestly not sure if that makes it more or less likely to be a targeted attack, but regardless of the intent behind stealing the stuff, that was months ago. The news now, is that he's doing what no other gay man or woman has done thanks to generous and appropriate sponsorship that he worked hard to earn. That story gets downplayed a bit when you bring up the old news about his stolen stuff, so I'm curious what the motivation is for even mentioning that.
Stampie said:I think the major reason people get away with hatred is others not pointing out that it's wrong.
I couldn't agree more. Accountability is what is needed to create change. I compare it to someone who is north of 300 lb stating to make lifestyle changes, but being resistant to the idea of a personal trainer. They like the idea of losing weight via lifestyle changes, but they don't want to be held accountable for doing so. So they live their life the same and face the same issues without change month after month fueled by ignorance that the status quo is acceptable. Rarely will they actually make the need to changes to result in a positive outcome until after they face a harsh reality, such as a heart attack. Often people that commit petty crime, and non-violent hate fueled crime is the pettiest, won't change until an introduction to the criminal justice system that includes a brief stay in government sponsored housing. And it's the lack of accountability and not having the spine change that fuels both situations.
One can only hope that a mirror being shown to such people can assist them in seeing the ugly reality prompting change prior to them finding a deeper bottom.
STM317 said:Can I ask how the stolen stuff is relevant enough now to merit bringing up?
Dude got a bunch of new stuff after having his old stuff stolen. Seems like a pretty good story arc?
In reply to STM317 :
Likely the post got him on someone in HRs radar
"Hey boss, you wanted us to get into new markets? Look at this "
Can I add some levity? When I saw the title, I thought transmission gear, and it made sense that a gear grinder was called Grindr.
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:Stampie said:I think the major reason people get away with hatred is others not pointing out that it's wrong.
I couldn't agree more. Accountability is what is needed to create change. I compare it to someone who is north of 300 lb stating to make lifestyle changes, but being resistant to the idea of a personal trainer. They like the idea of losing weight via lifestyle changes, but they don't want to be held accountable for doing so. So they live their life the same and face the same issues without change month after month fueled by ignorance that the status quo is acceptable. Rarely will they actually make the need to changes to result in a positive outcome until after they face a harsh reality, such as a heart attack. Often people that commit petty crime, and non-violent hate fueled crime is the pettiest, won't change until an introduction to the criminal justice system that includes a brief stay in government sponsored housing. And it's the lack of accountability and not having the spine change that fuels both situations.
One can only hope that a mirror being shown to such people can assist them in seeing the ugly reality prompting change prior to them finding a deeper bottom.
I sure don't see what being fat has to compare itself to theft. A fat guy is not hurting anyone other than himself and his health insurance carrier. A thief specifically hurts other people.
But, it's perfectly fine to target fat people, because, you know, funny.
Mr_Asa said:In reply to STM317 :
Likely the post got him on someone in HRs radar
"Hey boss, you wanted us to get into new markets? Look at this "
In the social media world, a company like Grindr could've had that stuff replaced in days and enjoyed the good PR. The gear was stolen during the first event of the year, and they're now 2/3 of the way through the season when his sponsorship begins. There's zero evidence in anything provided here or elsewhere that I can find that the missing gear had anything to do with his new sponsorship. They seem unrelated.
I think the sponsorship is clever, and I'm happy to see barriers being broken. I just don't really see that the stolen stuff is relevant or makes the current news story better. If anything I think that it derails the discussion away from this guy's achievement. There are plenty of opportunities to talk about the million ways that human beings can be awful toward each other. This was a chance to talk about something pretty awesome and uplifting instead, and it was steered away from that by bringing up the stolen goods.
CrustyRedXpress said:STM317 said:Can I ask how the stolen stuff is relevant enough now to merit bringing up?
Dude got a bunch of new stuff after having his old stuff stolen. Seems like a pretty good story arc?
He got a lot more than new gear though. He was unsponsored and running in a lower class when his stuff was stolen. This new sponsorship means he'll race in Top Fuel. The sponsorship is the big deal here, because that's the key that opened the door to the highest level of drag racing. And having that opportunity and platform is the groundbreaking part of all of this. The way the story is presented, it seems like the company heard about the stolen items and replaced them. But I haven't seen anything outside of this story to suggest that to be the case. And that's burying the lede, which in my opinion distracts from the man's achievement and focuses on how people suck instead.
In a sport where sponsorship (or lack thereof) often dictates a driver's success more than actual driving skill, I'm glad this turn of events led to him getting a sponsor. If said sponsor gets a bunch of ignorant people spinning in circles, even better. Anyone who's spent time at a drag strip knows that diversity and inclusion are not a given.
STM317 said:Mr_Asa said:In reply to STM317 :
Likely the post got him on someone in HRs radar
"Hey boss, you wanted us to get into new markets? Look at this "
In the social media world, a company like Grindr could've had that stuff replaced in days and enjoyed the good PR. The gear was stolen during the first event of the year, and they're now 2/3 of the way through the season when his sponsorship begins. There's zero evidence in anything provided here or elsewhere that I can find that the missing gear had anything to do with his new sponsorship. They seem unrelated.
I think the sponsorship is clever, and I'm happy to see barriers being broken. I just don't really see that the stolen stuff is relevant or makes the current news story better. If anything I think that it derails the discussion away from this guy's achievement. There are plenty of opportunities to talk about the million ways that human beings can be awful toward each other. This was a chance to talk about something pretty awesome and uplifting instead, and it was steered away from that by bringing up the stolen goods.
Replacing the stuff could have been a matter of days, not disagreeing there.
That's not the sponsorship, though. The sponsorship took him from your average semi-pro drag racer and put him in Top Fuel. That isn't something that is done in a few days, hiring the team, finding the chassis, building the car, etc etc. The time frame from Feb to now seems somewhat reasonable to expect that it might take 6ish months to build a team.
They might have reached out to him shortly after his stuff was stolen and asked that he not announce till it was ready.
Not saying this is what happened, just saying its a plausible answer that someone saw his post and brought it up to the boss and that started the whole thing snowballing.
So being PC is still the highest virtue one can achieve! Awesome. Lots of people throw around the an word casually, yet no one ever complains about it until it happens at a NASCAR event for example.
You want to know why this story stinks? Theft and sexual preference are not related in any way. Everyone is reaching to make a connection in order to be more PC. It also has nothing to do with being a capable drag racer.
I'm sure I will be berated shortly for not being PC enough. I'd expect nothing less in this day and age. We can discuss other non-related things too if you'd like such as Ferrari engineering and the price of tea in China.
Mr_Asa said:STM317 said:Mr_Asa said:In reply to STM317 :
Likely the post got him on someone in HRs radar
"Hey boss, you wanted us to get into new markets? Look at this "
In the social media world, a company like Grindr could've had that stuff replaced in days and enjoyed the good PR. The gear was stolen during the first event of the year, and they're now 2/3 of the way through the season when his sponsorship begins. There's zero evidence in anything provided here or elsewhere that I can find that the missing gear had anything to do with his new sponsorship. They seem unrelated.
I think the sponsorship is clever, and I'm happy to see barriers being broken. I just don't really see that the stolen stuff is relevant or makes the current news story better. If anything I think that it derails the discussion away from this guy's achievement. There are plenty of opportunities to talk about the million ways that human beings can be awful toward each other. This was a chance to talk about something pretty awesome and uplifting instead, and it was steered away from that by bringing up the stolen goods.
Replacing the stuff could have been a matter of days, not disagreeing there.
That's not the sponsorship, though. The sponsorship took him from your average semi-pro drag racer and put him in Top Fuel. That isn't something that is done in a few days, hiring the team, finding the chassis, building the car, etc etc. The time frame from Feb to now seems somewhat reasonable to expect that it might take 6ish months to build a team.
They might have reached out to him shortly after his stuff was stolen and asked that he not announce till it was ready.
Not saying this is what happened, just saying its a plausible answer that someone saw his post and brought it up to the boss and that started the whole thing snowballing.
It's also plausible that the sponsorship was simply the result of this guy and his team working hard to find a sponsor for the last year, and that it's completely unrelated to him being victimized months ago.
I'm leaning toward that being the case since I still haven't seen anything in other media or the guy's own social media to indicate that his Grindr sponsorship came as the result of his stuff getting stolen.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
What's PC about treating others as you'd like them to treat you?
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:So being PC is still the highest virtue one can achieve! Awesome. Lots of people throw around the an word casually, yet no one ever complains about it until it happens at a NASCAR event for example.
Anthony, no.
People have/do complain in every environment that the N'er word being thrown around. Sometimes and often it gets ignored or swept under. I myself just do not choose to list everywhere. But, I've heard it at NASCAR events, military workspaces (said by people in prominent positions), parks, hospitals, schools, church, everywhere really. No level of racism surprises me anymore, its almost expected.
It isn't about being PC just to achieve whatever level of virtue that you're referring to. I know that you have an issue with possibly getting backlash for your point of views and thoughts. From reading your post on GRM I can tell that much. In my opinion just say what you really feel and do not worry about the backlash, be YOU! If people don't like it then just roll with whatever comes afterwards. At least you stayed true to yourself no matter who thinks you're wrong/right. I would hate to be a part of a community where I cant say what I honestly feel and think. I might get removed from that community but that's fine because that just means our values didn't align well enough for me to stay.
I'm not saying that you're racist or anything but I appreciate an open racist more than I do a closet racist who fears the backlash of his personal beliefs. It's also okay to be wrong.
Stampie said:In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
What's PC about treating others as you'd like them to treat you?
Absolutely nothing. We are making pizza Sunday. We are having our gay friend Sam over for pizza? What does that have to do with cars or racing? Nothing. People spend way to much effort trying to make everything about politically correct causes. It ruins everything.
yupididit said:AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:So being PC is still the highest virtue one can achieve! Awesome. Lots of people throw around the an word casually, yet no one ever complains about it until it happens at a NASCAR event for example.
Anthony, no.
People have/do complain in every environment that the N'er word being thrown around. Sometimes and often it gets ignored or swept under. I myself just do not choose to list everywhere. But, I've heard it at NASCAR events, military workspaces (said by people in prominent positions), parks, hospitals, schools, church, everywhere really. No level of racism surprises me anymore, its almost expected.
It isn't about being PC just to achieve whatever level of virtue that you're referring to. I know that you have an issue with possibly getting backlash for your point of views and thoughts. From reading your post on GRM I can tell that much. In my opinion just say what you really feel and do not worry about the backlash, be YOU! If people don't like it then just roll with whatever comes afterwards. At least you stayed true to yourself no matter who thinks you're wrong/right. I would hate to be a part of a community where I cant say what I honestly feel and think. I might get removed from that community but that's fine because that just means our values didn't align well enough for me to stay.
I'm not saying that you're racist or anything but I appreciate an open racist more than I do a closet racist who fears the backlash of his personal beliefs. It's also okay to be wrong.
Your first point. No people use the N word all the time in movies and music and no one complains about it.
I hate racism as much or more than most. It is quite honestly the lowest form of intelligence. Hating someone based on their parents whom they didn't get to choose is the ultimate in idiocy.
And yes while some in here truly care, a lot of people are posting just for social credit. Pandering to be politically correct is the new cool. I'd rather be fair, true to myself and uncool in that case.
Very few here care about the NHRA. It is rarely posted about. Now the NHRA gets lumped in with racism and bigotry of all kinds and associated with NASCAR for a story. I find that odd and don't mind saying so. It doesn't fit the theme of this place unless the tie is via political correctness. That's the only connection I see.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
If you're referring to the two different words that ends with -ga and -er as one in the same then....I wont go into the obvious and cultural differences between the N'ga and N'er terms and their usage/intent because explaining it just isn't going to do anything for this thread, me or you. Plus, its not my responsibility to educate everyone.
I don't think this thread nor the article was reaching for political correctness as their message from the story. I also do not see any attempts at being politically correct. I think you injected that into this thread based on your dislike of PC'ness.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:And yes while some in here truly care, a lot of people are posting just for social credit. Pandering to be politically correct is the new cool. I'd rather be fair, true to myself and uncool in that case.
We should acknowledge that we don't know why the driver's gear was stolen in the first place. My electric scooter got stolen from my paddock at the race track last month, and there was no obvious motive other than somebody wanting my stuff. No matter what the motives are, thieves suck.
But to accuse posters here that are supportive of the driver as posturing for "social credit" is completely misguided. Then to not understand the obvious power dynamics that surround words like "N" and how saying it to a stranger at the track might be different than someone from that social group saying it in a song... wow. Many posters, myself included, have direct and relevant experience with all sorts of racist, sexism, homophobia, and general bigotry at the track. I could fill a book with appalling things I've heard or seen from people at the track, many of whom I barely know and often with a wink and a nudge like "you're one of US, right?" I happen to be a middle aged white guy and there are lots of other middle aged white guys who view the track as their safe space to express some pretty toxic views to their peers. I participate in the sport because I like cars and competition, and often despite this social dynamic. I hate it. You know how people will say "with all due respect..." then proceed to say something completely disrespectful? That's exactly how I feel when people go on about "political correctness". You're free to disagree with people and to express your views, but you're not free from how they might view you, or the consequences of your words.
Is being "cool" having an open mind? Being willing to listen as well as talk? Being willing to grow and change your views? Having empathy, understanding that words have power, knowing the difference between right and wrong? If so, I very much want to be "cool" and don't want to be "uncool".
thatsnowinnebago said:In reply to Toyman! :
The only out gay man in drag racing getting his gear stolen makes me suspicious of the motives. Stealing gear is a pretty classic move against a minority in any sport.
The fact that it took until 2022 for someone to both be out in drag racing tells me that being gay has most likely held people back from racing. I suppose it's possible that he's the only gay man who has ever been good enough to make it in the NHRA but the odds are pretty low.
Edit: to be clear, the assumed bigots here are the people who stole his gear.
Give me a break racing equipment etc getting stolen is common many times that's stuff is worth money people want to sell it to make money. I had a friend a few years who's fire suit got stolen from her dads truck it was a nascar replica fire suit.
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