I didn't see it when it happened, thanks to Fox's mistake in showing it on tape delay, but Holy Crap that's just about the most insane in car camera action that I've ever seen. It looks like the cockpit camera view from the Blue Angels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V86IC6dYtos
I was happy to see him throw the wheel out in disgust right after he came to a stop. Interesting that he hung on to the wheel the entire time there was still picture from the on-board camera. I'm not sure what else you'd do there, maybe grab your belts across your chest to keep your arms in? He doesn't exactly blame Hekki but he doesn't take the blame either - in my book if you ram somebody from behind you're at fault, be it on the street or on the street course in Valencia.
A dramatic difference in straight line speed, the appearance that the front car was moving over to let him by, and a moments hesitation....
Notice how he took out the overhead DHL sign...
'ell oova blooudy brayke check, ey?
Those cars are really built. Lord knows how it stayed together..
punctuation in an interesting race.
Anyone else as upset as I am about Hamilton's lack of penalty? Essentially, Alonso lost 5 positions because he chose NOT to completely disregard the rules.
maroon92 wrote: Anyone else as upset as I am about Hamilton's lack of penalty?
This was my immediate take on it at the time; stay with me here..
There is a white line that leads out of the pits, and crossing that line is forbidden. The car is not considered "back on track" until clear of the line, when racing can resume. There are instant penalties for crossing over the line to race before clearing the line's end .
This is the essence of my arguement in Lewis' behalf.
You can see clearly in the overhead shot that the safety car had NOT cleared the white line, and in theory was not yet "on track" while Hamilton went by.
If the white line means a certain thing for the racecars, then it means the same thing for the safety car.
That is all.
maroon92 wrote: punctuation in an interesting race. Anyone else as upset as I am about Hamilton's lack of penalty? Essentially, Alonso lost 5 positions because he chose NOT to completely disregard the rules.
But what, exactly, is the rule? The safety car was in pit lane exit when Lewis went by. Does that mean the safety car was on the track, or entering the track?
And I don't know the answer. I presume the Stewards do.
Now, from a drivers strandpoint, he has a VERY short period to decide. He took the decision that served him better. If he was wrong, the worst thing they do is put him back around the whining Mr Alonzo. If he's right, one of his primary competitors is eliminated from the fight for the lead. Can't argue with the results of his decision.
The penalty for almost everyone from Jensen on back was odd, I thought. If I read correctly, the problem was the speed at which those drivers completed the segment of the track as the safety car was coming out. They were racing hard, there was a huge shunt way behind them, they continued to race until the yellows came out, then they slowed and entered the pits. Hard to keep your sector speed down in that situation, and I guess the stewards agreed, since they were assessed a 5 second penaltythat changed very little about the results.
My point exactly, Streetwiseguy.. I think he made the correct desicion, and the stewards likely did as well, which is why they gave him a light (essentialy non-) penalty.
NYG95GA wrote: My point exactly, Streetwiseguy.. I think he made the correct desicion, and the stewards likely did as well, which is why they gave him a light (essentialy non-) penalty.
What would everyone have said if Alonso had followed Hamilton's lead?
You are saying that Alonso should have broken the rules, because the penalty wasn't severe enough?
NYG95GA wrote:maroon92 wrote:NYG95GA wrote: My point exactly, Streetwiseguy.. I think he made the correct desicion, and the stewards likely did as well, which is why they gave him a light (essentialy non-) penalty.What would everyone have said if Alonso had followed Hamilton's lead? You are saying that Alonso should have broken the rules, because the penalty wasn't severe enough?
I'm just saying that racecars that get ahead of the safety car before it clears the pit exit line should not be penalized, since the safety car was not "on the track", according to paint on the asphalt. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
There was a good chance Fonzo could have gotten past the safety car before then, but he elected to stay behind. I'll admit, he got hosed, but that's just how it came down.
Just imagine.. race stewards screwing up.. go figure.. 
There's a "safety car line" that was right where Hamilton passed the safety car. Doesn't matter whether the safety car has crossed the end of the blend line. It looked to me like he beat the safety car there by a whisker after a moment's hesitation when he first encountered it at pit exit - he realized (or was told) he hadn't gotten to the safety car line yet and punched it. Alonso was just unlucky about his track position vs the safety car coming on track. Had Kobyashi's Sauber not been holding up Jensen et al. Hamilton's drive thru would have been more meaningful. That's racing.
pigeon wrote: There's a "safety car line" that was right where Hamilton passed the safety car. Doesn't matter whether the safety car has crossed the end of the blend line. It looked to me like he beat the safety car there by a whisker...
I didn't know there was a separate line for the safety car, but I'm not suprised. Thanx for the info. I did notice the safety car start to cross the line, and felt that if a racer had done that, they would suffer a penalty.
P.S.: I just looked at it again, and I think Hamilton did barely miss catching up by the line..
the stewards assessed a penalty for the infraction. Hamilton cranked out some fast laps and served his penalty. End of story.
Ferrari is just PO'd because the FIA didn't help them gain an advantage.
I think that the problem is that Hamilton slowed up and stayed with the safety car so that Alonso could not legally pass it. Had Hamilton just gone by the SC, a lot of cars behind could have also done that.
I like how Steve Matchett was upset with the stewards that they didn't add a 10 second stop and go, saying that they should have easily known he would have come out in 2nd place. Yet he had predicted that Hamilton would come out in 7th and as Hamilton was entering the pits, Hobbs was predicting that he would come out in 2nd.
maroon92 wrote:NYG95GA wrote: My point exactly, Streetwiseguy.. I think he made the correct desicion, and the stewards likely did as well, which is why they gave him a light (essentialy non-) penalty.What would everyone have said if Alonso had followed Hamilton's lead? You are saying that Alonso should have broken the rules, because the penalty wasn't severe enough?
If he did, and served his penalty, and still came out third- so be it.
I find it pretty funny that people behind Hamilton/Alonso/Masa were all penalized at the end for going too fast under yellow, and some thing that Hamilton wasn't going fast enough under the yellow. Perhaps Vettel was going too fast?
Light penalty, hell- had Kobyashi been quick engouh- it would have cost him 2nd. Alas, before they even knew there was going to be an investgation, they got a 13 second lead that he stretched out in the two laps they had to serve it far enough to not loose a spot. Luck and great driving.
Perhaps it was fitting that Kobyashi passed Fred at the end ( so I hear- the tornados stopped coverage locally).
Eric
I am not defending Fred (though I am a Fred in Red fan, I am trying to be objective.), and he did deserve to be passed by Kobayashi. Sauber's pit strategy just plain worked out, and its hard to defend on 25 lap old tires when the guy behind you has two lap old tires.
As for the penalty, I am just saying that if the roles had been reversed, and Alonso had benefited and Hamilton was stuck behind the safety car, there would be an absolute UPROAR about the "red rule", and the FIA favoring Ferrari.
maroon92 wrote: As for the penalty, I am just saying that if the roles had been reversed, and Alonso had benefited and Hamilton was stuck behind the safety car, there would be an absolute UPROAR about the "red rule", and the FIA favoring Ferrari.
Considering there is even talk of a "red rule" makes me cringe with justification. That's all I have to say about it.
Lewis got penalized- again, it's not his fault that Kobyashi was so slow. And from what I've been reading, it was a matter of inches whether Hamilton was even in the wrong in the first place. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Ferrari didn't in this case. Hamilton kind of did, even though he did get penalized.
Back to the post topic...
Red Bull, it gives you wings
klipless wrote: Back to the post topic... *Red Bull, it gives you wings*
That looks like a screenshot from one of my favorite SNES games, Pilotwings.
F1 yanked the video
Tsshhht. Redbull, you are go for liftoff. Tsshhht.
Woody wrote: F1 yanked the video
You mean Bernie did. Thank God. Having that video out there being posted on internets may cause non-paying, non-F1race fans to actually get interested in the sport.
can't have any of that.
After ignoring this thread Sunday and Monday, I watched the race last night (thanks DVR). That was something to be able to walk away from.
As far as the penalty for Hamilton, the only reason it was not a penalty was because Kobayashi was so slow. The stewards should assign a penalty based on the infraction, not the competition. It is not Hamilton's fault that all the other cars couldn't get around a slower car.
I was confused about the whole safety car though. In another thread people recently complained that it took 3 laps at Sear's Point for the NASCAR boys to clear off some damaged car and get back to green. Isn't that what happend with Weber's crash? It sure seemed like three laps...might have been 2, but it was a very long time and it seemed that the field really never formed up behind the safety car until it pulled off. The whole episode seemed goofy and disorganized to me.
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