May need a tow piglet, considering SUVs - discuss

Right, so my F250 is feeling poorly and given how much money I sunk into over the last couple of years, I may have to finally put it out to pasture[1]. Which means I need a replacement that allows me to tow occasionally.

I liked the practicality of a long bed truck, but I rarely ever need to transport something that goes into the bed and a lot of times, I could just take the trailer or rent a utility trailer. So I could take advantage of getting an SUV, which would be nice as they're a tad cheaper than the corresponding truck.

My trailer has a GVWR of 7000lbs and I'm unlikely to buy a bigger trailer, so I don't need an F450 to tow it despite of what the Internet Towing Experts think. I would be surprised if the Maxton + trailer exceed 4000lbs, but I did tow my wife's LJ home with it and that was probably close to 6000lbs for truck + trailer. Trailer has electric brakes and any tow vehicle I'd buy would get a brake controller.

One obvious choice would be a Ford Excursion with the V10 as the added maintenance on a big Diesel isn't really worth it for the 3k-5k I drive the tow vehicle annually. Plus, well, it's a tad big.

Instead I was thinking about getting something a tad newer but smaller - a lot of the 'nicer' SUVs (like a Touareg, LR3, Navigator et al) have 7000+ tow ratings and are still smaller than my house. So from what I've seen and an expected budget around 10k-12k, I should be able to get one of the following:

• Nissan Armada - IIRC that one has the highest tow rating of the lot at 9k lbs
• Lincoln Navigator - not sure I want one from the VVT actuator days of Ford, the earlier ones are well within budget but IIRC have somewhat lower tow rating. Prefer this over the Explorer due to the nicer interior
• Toyota Sequoia - do the frame issues carry over from the Tundra? Also, more expensive and lower tow rating than the Armada

The "oh great, BoxheadTim got into the jar with the good stuff again" collection:

• 2010/11-ish Touareg TDI. Not the V10, the regular V6. Cayenne might also be an option, but I'm not that keen on the V8 with its issues.
• Land Rover LR3

I've driven an early (twin cam) Navigator and liked it. Not much experience with any of the others. The advantage of the vehicles on the first list is that I expect most if not all of them can be repaired at the local garage and I don't have to hunt down a specialist to work on them.

Any real life experience with any of the above, especially when it comes to towing?

[1] Figuratively. My wife is opposed to turning it into yard art.

2002-2005 Cadillac Escalade. Comfy. Cheap. 6L HD drivetrain is absolutely amazing. Comfy.

Have 2 of them and they are my default response to these questions. For 7k, I found one with 100k miles and at 165k it feels like it's barely broken in. The other I bought for 8k with 120k miles and it's at 160k as well. Only downside is fuel consumption. Seems like I get 11-12mpg empty or loaded. Have towed my track car up and down the midwest (usually 8-12 hour tows) with not a single strand inducing issue.

I was going to say Escalade/Denali with the 6.0, as well.

I'm looking to replace my Excursion with one of those 6.2 Escalade's. It's getting long in the tooth with over 240k miles and it might need a trans since I've seemingly lost all gears the other morning. 

Escalade (and Escalade ESV) actually were on my list, forgot to add them above. Sounds like those should be close to the top of the list then?

Although it does appear to not be easy around here to find one in the 100k/120k miles range.

How does the transmission on these hold up? I did a bit of searching for 2500 Tahoes and 'burbans (because HD transmission) but those seem to be really thin on the ground.

Edit: One of the reasons for including the smaller Euro-SUVs was that those are about as big as my wife would drive, so we could end up sharing a backup car. This may allow us to reduce the number of vehicles by one, but it shouldn't be at the expense of towing ability.

Nissan Armada is a nice choice since they can be had for a lot less than a comparable tahoe/yukon.  

Unless Nissan has addressed the design, the 5.6 in the Armada likely will have the cracked exhaust manifold issue.  Some have had occur as low as 60k miles, though it may still be covered under warranty until 80k miles since the cat is integrated into the manifold so it is an emissions related warranty item.

In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :

There's a Suburban 2500 in the for sale section

In reply to yupididit :

The Frankenburban with the (potentially low oil pressure) 8.1L? Or was there another one I haven't noticed?

engiekev said:

Nissan Armada is a nice choice since they can be had for a lot less than a comparable tahoe/yukon.  

That's kinda what attracted me to them in the first place. Plus given how long it was in production, Nissan may have got something right.

Unless Nissan has addressed the design, the 5.6 in the Armada likely will have the cracked exhaust manifold issue.  Some have had occur as low as 60k miles, though it may still be covered under warranty until 80k miles since the cat is integrated into the manifold so it is an emissions related warranty item.

That's good to know. Would that be audible and/or detectable via a check engine light with an assorted code? Although Armadas around here with that sort of low miles are thin on the ground and above my budget.

You might also look at 6.0l GM trucks. My Silverado Vortec Maxx is rated to tow 10k pounds. 

367hp and 375tq is a pretty fun drive. The only downfall is 10:1 compression. It doesn't like regular gas. It also LOVES premium. 16 mpg is my average. 

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

engiekev said:

Nissan Armada is a nice choice since they can be had for a lot less than a comparable tahoe/yukon.  

That's kinda what attracted me to them in the first place. Plus given how long it was in production, Nissan may have got something right.

Unless Nissan has addressed the design, the 5.6 in the Armada likely will have the cracked exhaust manifold issue.  Some have had occur as low as 60k miles, though it may still be covered under warranty until 80k miles since the cat is integrated into the manifold so it is an emissions related warranty item.

That's good to know. Would that be audible and/or detectable via a check engine light with an assorted code? Although Armadas around here with that sort of low miles are thin on the ground and above my budget.

Oh for sure that is the appeal of nearly all 2005+ to 2015 Nissan's, not much changed but that means more parts availibility and ideally more reliability.  The 5.6L was put into a lot of trucks, Armada, Titan, Pathfinder (that's what we have) for many years.

Once the manifold leak starts, it becomes audible and sounds almost like a leaking gasket.  If it gets bad enough, it will set a P0430 or P0420 fault indicating a failed catalyst, but it may be setting simply due to the leak.  At that point, you can choose to replace with OEM design parts (lots of aftermarket parts makers offer OEM fitment manifolds for around $300-400 each), or spring for a header upgrade and aftermarket catalytic converter, but that will require a tune with it (check out https://www.cajunbpipes.com/ for the most common solution and with a tune).

In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :

I am keeping an eye out for suitable trucks. That said, right now the truck market is berkeleying nuts out here and I didn't really anything worth having in reasonable distance from here.

That said, it appears that the 6.0 Escalades also got the the LQ9 engine.

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

Escalade (and Escalade ESV) actually were on my list, forgot to add them above. Sounds like those should be close to the top of the list then?

Although it does appear to not be easy around here to find one in the 100k/120k miles range.

How does the transmission on these hold up? I did a bit of searching for 2500 Tahoes and 'burbans (because HD transmission) but those seem to be really thin on the ground.

Edit: One of the reasons for including the smaller Euro-SUVs was that those are about as big as my wife would drive, so we could end up sharing a backup car. This may allow us to reduce the number of vehicles by one, but it shouldn't be at the expense of towing ability.

GM transmissions tend to be pretty bullet proof. Having said that People with no mechanical sympathy can have trouble with any transmission. Any brand any make.  
they're the ones who slam the power to a cold transmission.  constantly  flooring it and letting off. Up and down on the throttle.  With mechanical sympathy you ease into the load and accelerate steadily slow down the same way.  Change the transmission fluid at less than  the maximum mileage. 
I could get 300,000 miles in a little S10 pulling a big tandem axle enclosed trailer. 

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to yupididit :

The Frankenburban with the (potentially low oil pressure) 8.1L? Or was there another one I haven't noticed?

Yeah that one

In reply to yupididit :

A trans maybe cheaper than another ride.

In reply to frenchyd :

While that's all fine and dandy, keep in mind that I'll likely be looking at something that some civilian has driven and "maintained" for a 100k miles or more.

Have a few friends that went this route recently. One with a Touareg V6 TDI, the other a cayenne diesel. Both are recent enough purchases that I can't comment on reliability so far, but they both love them. Touareg is towing an open trailer probably ~5k total and claims it tows effortlessly. Cayenne is towing a small aluminum enclosed trailer, probably ~6k total weight. He downsized from a gm 1500 truck and claims the cayenne does just fine. I think both of those are quite a bit out of your price range, though you did list them as possibilities. If you're willing to sacrifice a bit on modernity and classiness there's probably more financially logical options.

W164 ML550s will tow 7200 lbs, are super comfy, reasonably-sized and from my experience fairly reliable.

Ford Flex?

I'll see myself out. 

In reply to Jordan Rimpela (FS) :

Ecoboost only, though. 

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

While that's all fine and dandy, keep in mind that I'll likely be looking at something that some civilian has driven and "maintained" for a 100k miles or more.

I'm not sure what you mean by a civilian. But anyone who changes ( himself or the dealer) transmission fluid at 65,000 miles  should be good. Sniff the fluid, if it doesn't have a burnt smell and is still red it should be good. If there isn't a record or he's vague about things as long as it passes the sniff and color test should be OK but change it right away.  For hauling a load fresh fluid is very important. 

chada75 said:

In reply to yupididit :

A trans maybe cheaper than another ride.

Oh for sure but I want something nicer, QUIETER, newer, faster. I was going to sell it eventually anyway. 

In reply to dps214 :

I've seen several Touareg TDIs that were at the top end of my budget but definitely attainable. Heck, I even just found a V10 that's in my budget: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/822303947/overview/?aff=atempest&cmp=atempest&utm_source=AutoTempest&utm_medium=TRP&utm_campaign=atempest

2011 seems to be the cut-off point for the Touareg, everything newer than that is above my budget. Cayenne Diesels are well out of budget.

In reply to G_Body_Man (Forum Supporter) :

Unfortunately it also looks like they're about twice of what my budget is.

Escalade or Yukon Denali with non afm 6.2.  2008-2010.  Total tanks. 400hp 400lb ft torque. 

Or a suburban.