Miata clutch job--what else should I do?

99 Miata, 10AE (which means six speed)

As of about... eh, about a week ago, the car now whines after I put it in first, but before I disengage the clutch. When I take it out of first, it whines when I granny shift and don't double clutch like I'm supposed to. It whines until the clutch is fully disengaged. Other gears are hit and miss, but first is pretty much always a whiner.

So it sounds to me, an absolutely horrible mechanic, like the throwout bearing needs to be replaced. And it would be silly to replace that and not replace the clutch when it has 115k miles on it.

So anything else that I should replace while I'm in there?

Bad throwout bearing should only make a rattle when the clutch pedal ISN'T depressed. Sounds like a disc or some toasted gears.

Your description is much more indicative of a transmission problem, not a clutch problem.

Don't quite know what you mean by granny shift, but you don't double clutch when upshifting out of first, or any other upshift for that matter.

foxtrapper wrote: Your description is much more indicative of a transmission problem, not a clutch problem. Don't quite know what you mean by granny shift, but you don't double clutch when upshifting out of first, or any other upshift for that matter.

Hmm... Transmission problem isn't good. Dang it.

And the granny shifting was a reference to Fast and Furious. My point was I can stop the whine when I do double clutch, regardless of upshift or downshift or whether that method makes any sense for actually driving the car.

I'm still rather confused by your description, but I suspect you've got a bad bearing in that gearbox. You're hearing it whine when you place a load on it. You've a clue from which gears it whines in, it helps indicate where the bearing is by it's proximity to the gear sets.

A cheap and occasionally effective band-aid is to change the oil in the gearbox. It's especially effective if you happen to currently be low on oil and the bearing isn't particularly damaged yet.

Jack up the pass front of the car, pull the wheel off, reach in and push the slave rod all the way in and clean off the slave rod and clutch fork where it connects the best you can then glob a bunch of the stickiest grease you have on the connection point between the two. No more clutch squeak.

If that doesnt fix it. The car is probably due for new fluid in the tranny, do that next. The 6 speed generally like redline MTL. Drain it from the bottom fill it through the shifter turret. You probably need to replace both shifter boots and the shifter tip bushing at this point anyways.

Replace your slave cylinder, strongly consider a braided line to replace the bent metal POS that's stock, and flush it. Also spray a E36 M3ton of lithium grease under the slave rubber boot. Try this before servicing the clutch. It worked on my '99!

$14 slave cylinder: http://949racing.com/miata-clutch-slave-cylinder.aspx

$29 braided line: http://949racing.com/miata-clutch-line.aspx

In reply to mtn:
I'm always impressed by the number of people on this forum who don't catch 'The Fast and the Furious' references.
It's not your fault.

Leafy wrote: Jack up the pass front of the car, pull the wheel off, reach in and push the slave rod all the way in and clean off the slave rod and clutch fork where it connects the best you can then glob a bunch of the stickiest grease you have on the connection point between the two. No more clutch squeak. If that doesnt fix it. The car is probably due for new fluid in the tranny, do that next. The 6 speed generally like redline MTL. Drain it from the bottom fill it through the shifter turret. You probably need to replace both shifter boots and the shifter tip bushing at this point anyways.

Yooooooo....... Haiiiilllll naw.

That Redline E36 M3 is berkeleying awful. Do not use.

Amsoil MTG or pay twice as much for the Motorcraft Unicorn Tears.

kylini wrote: Replace your slave cylinder, strongly consider a braided line to replace the bent metal POS that's stock, and flush it. Also spray a E36 M3ton of lithium grease under the slave rubber boot. Try this before servicing the clutch. It worked on my '99! $14 slave cylinder: http://949racing.com/miata-clutch-slave-cylinder.aspx $29 braided line: http://949racing.com/miata-clutch-line.aspx

The Exedy parts that Emilio sells are the same ones you get for cheaper on RockAuto.

The braided line is also available cheaper through 5xRacing last i checked.

In reply to Foxtrapper: No double clutch upshifting from first? I don't see why not. My 1st to 2nd shift has always been rough on startup, I think the synchros are going. Double clutching works wonders here. In fact, I think the entire gearbox might need synchros, mine feels especially notchy and I bought it from some old guy that probably didn't know how to drive. Double clutching makes shifts nice and buttery smooth. Not a good sign lol.

Swank Force One wrote:

Leafy wrote: Jack up the pass front of the car, pull the wheel off, reach in and push the slave rod all the way in and clean off the slave rod and clutch fork where it connects the best you can then glob a bunch of the stickiest grease you have on the connection point between the two. No more clutch squeak. If that doesnt fix it. The car is probably due for new fluid in the tranny, do that next. The 6 speed generally like redline MTL. Drain it from the bottom fill it through the shifter turret. You probably need to replace both shifter boots and the shifter tip bushing at this point anyways.

Yooooooo....... Haiiiilllll naw. That Redline E36 M3 is berkeleying awful. Do not use. Amsoil MTG or pay twice as much for the Motorcraft Unicorn Tears.

I thought the 6 speed didnt really care about the motocrap, it just took it like normal gear oil. And I know the AmsOil MTG is the stuff for track 6 speeds, but according to Emilio the Redline is better for a street car.

Desmond wrote: In reply to Foxtrapper: No double clutch upshifting from first? I don't see why not. My 1st to 2nd shift has always been rough on startup, I think the synchros are going. Double clutching works wonders here. In fact, I think the entire gearbox might need synchros, mine feels especially notchy and I bought it from some old guy that probably didn't know how to drive. Double clutching makes shifts nice and buttery smooth. Not a good sign lol.

No thats just how the 6 speed feels. Its a super duper E36 M3ty feeling tranny. Spending the $350 of the miata roadster shifter fixes that though.

Leafy wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Leafy wrote: Jack up the pass front of the car, pull the wheel off, reach in and push the slave rod all the way in and clean off the slave rod and clutch fork where it connects the best you can then glob a bunch of the stickiest grease you have on the connection point between the two. No more clutch squeak. If that doesnt fix it. The car is probably due for new fluid in the tranny, do that next. The 6 speed generally like redline MTL. Drain it from the bottom fill it through the shifter turret. You probably need to replace both shifter boots and the shifter tip bushing at this point anyways.

Yooooooo....... Haiiiilllll naw. That Redline E36 M3 is berkeleying awful. Do not use. Amsoil MTG or pay twice as much for the Motorcraft Unicorn Tears.

I thought the 6 speed didnt really care about the motocrap, it just took it like normal gear oil. And I know the AmsOil MTG is the stuff for track 6 speeds, but according to Emilio the Redline is better for a street car.

I paid a bunch of money to replace some gross Pennzoil crap in our 6spd with some Redline MTL, and was HIGHLY disappointed when it shifted god-berkeleying-awful. Worse than the E36 M3 Pennzoil it replaced.

Amsoil MTG made it super happy and was cheaper than Redline. Me gusta.

Everything loves MTG.

Swank Force One wrote:

kylini wrote: Replace your slave cylinder, strongly consider a braided line to replace the bent metal POS that's stock, and flush it. Also spray a E36 M3ton of lithium grease under the slave rubber boot. Try this before servicing the clutch. It worked on my '99! $14 slave cylinder: http://949racing.com/miata-clutch-slave-cylinder.aspx $29 braided line: http://949racing.com/miata-clutch-line.aspx

The Exedy parts that Emilio sells are the same ones you get for cheaper on RockAuto. The braided line is also available cheaper through 5xRacing last i checked.

Noice!

I lithium greased my slave first before replacing crap and it was quiet for about a month. After replacing, it hasn't made noise for at least a year of drive time.

5XRacing now charges $34, but their photo shows the before and after line replacement: http://5xracing.com/i-6865200-5x-racing-extended-length-clutch-line-for-mazda-miata.html

They sell slaves for $12, masters for $25, and everything for $65 plus brake fluid: http://5xracing.com/i-8181789-clutch-hydraulic-system-refresh-pack-for-mazda-miata.html

Leafy wrote:

Desmond wrote: In reply to Foxtrapper: No double clutch upshifting from first? I don't see why not. My 1st to 2nd shift has always been rough on startup, I think the synchros are going. Double clutching works wonders here. In fact, I think the entire gearbox might need synchros, mine feels especially notchy and I bought it from some old guy that probably didn't know how to drive. Double clutching makes shifts nice and buttery smooth. Not a good sign lol.

No thats just how the 6 speed feels. Its a super duper E36 M3ty feeling tranny. Spending the $350 of the miata roadster shifter fixes that though.

MSM trans felt like the best silky butter you can find. Dude's car that i messed the VVT up on is a 6spd. Feels awesome.

Desmond wrote: In reply to Foxtrapper: No double clutch upshifting from first? I don't see why not. My 1st to 2nd shift has always been rough on startup, I think the synchros are going. Double clutching works wonders here. In fact, I think the entire gearbox might need synchros, mine feels especially notchy and I bought it from some old guy that probably didn't know how to drive. Double clutching makes shifts nice and buttery smooth. Not a good sign lol.

When you upshift you need the input shaft to slow down to match speeds. You can achieve that by pressing in the clutch and waiting for friction to slow it down. You don't slow it down faster by double clutching. Though double clutching takes time, and that's likely what's helping you, the longer time.

Now downshifting, you need the input shaft to be sped up. While the synchros do that normally, you can do this yourself by double clutching and using the engine to speed the shaft up. Very helpful when the synchros are worn.

AZ6......

1st to 2nd gear is a COMMON issue across the product line (Toyota and Mazda I KNOW of) Once warm this is usually no longer an issue.

I'm running Royal Purple gear oil... so far things seem fine... but I only have about 3500 miles on it so far (trans had about 15 to 20k before I got it)

Swank Force One wrote:

Leafy wrote:

Desmond wrote: In reply to Foxtrapper: No double clutch upshifting from first? I don't see why not. My 1st to 2nd shift has always been rough on startup, I think the synchros are going. Double clutching works wonders here. In fact, I think the entire gearbox might need synchros, mine feels especially notchy and I bought it from some old guy that probably didn't know how to drive. Double clutching makes shifts nice and buttery smooth. Not a good sign lol.

No thats just how the 6 speed feels. Its a super duper E36 M3ty feeling tranny. Spending the $350 of the miata roadster shifter fixes that though.

MSM trans felt like the best silky butter you can find. Dude's car that i messed the VVT up on is a 6spd. Feels awesome.

The MSM trans is the best of the 6-speeds, but it's still miles away from shifting as nicely as a 5-speed does.

I dont have time to double clutch, I only know how to flat shift.

codrus wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Leafy wrote:

Desmond wrote: In reply to Foxtrapper: No double clutch upshifting from first? I don't see why not. My 1st to 2nd shift has always been rough on startup, I think the synchros are going. Double clutching works wonders here. In fact, I think the entire gearbox might need synchros, mine feels especially notchy and I bought it from some old guy that probably didn't know how to drive. Double clutching makes shifts nice and buttery smooth. Not a good sign lol.

No thats just how the 6 speed feels. Its a super duper E36 M3ty feeling tranny. Spending the $350 of the miata roadster shifter fixes that though.

MSM trans felt like the best silky butter you can find. Dude's car that i messed the VVT up on is a 6spd. Feels awesome.

The MSM trans is the best of the 6-speeds, but it's still miles away from shifting as nicely as a 5-speed does.

I've had three 5spds now. The MSM and buddy's 02 both shifted better than any of the 5spds in my case.

Personal preference and anecdotes and all that.