[Miata] How much rust is too much?

Hey Guys,

I'm thinking of picking up a NB Miata to serve as a dual purpose DD and AutoX car. I have a two mile commute and if I put 5000 miles on my car in a year I'll be shocked. I'm also single and in my 20s so comfort/practicality isn't that important. As such, this purchase will be an AutoX focused car (STR class) with the intent of turning into a dedicated AutoX/Track car in a couple years (CSP class).

Anyway, now that my use/intent has been clarified, I'm curious about rust. I live in Michigan and as such, I expect most local Miatas have at least some rust on them. I have been fortunate thus far with my cars and have never had rust problems on my previous vehicles (nor have I ever looked at one with rust). As such, I know nothing about this automotive cancer. I checked out one Miata yesterday that has me a little bit nervous (getting it put on a lift today and taking it on a test drive). The rear rocker panels are rusted as is the lip of both rear fenders (all the way to the bumper panel). The rocker panels look to have been badly repaired. Rust filled in with something and painted over but rust is showing through again. It also looks like the fender lip may have been painted over too. Cosmetic damage doesn't scare me away, I see as a way to get a good price, but I'm terrified of simply cosmetic rust actually hiding a structural rust problem.

I know it is hard to judge without seeing it in person, but is this just going to be cosmetic damage or do I need to be concerned with structural damage as well? If it is just cosmetic, a patch panel and paint for either side should be sufficient. I need to call some body shops for better quotes, but any ball park figures? (I was thinking about $1000 for both sides). What about the under body? Are there any specific problem areas I should look for tonight? I was planning on taking a bunch of pictures this evening when I check out the car in person again. I can post those up to give a better idea of the extent of the rust and maybe one of the experts here could provide their opinion.

I have one other question about something very strange. This car was at a dealer and has been sitting for a couple weeks. When they went to start the car, the radio and everything would turn on, but the engine wouldn't turn over. He searched around trying to find an 'ignition reset lever' with no avail, went into the dealer to talk to another sales guy, came out, played with the windshield wiper and turn indicator levers, and the car started right up. What the hell is that about?

Run away from that car!

Rocker rust is structural. If it has rust over the fenders, then it is a bucket. I've been involved with Miatas for over 10 yrs and never heard of a reset lever.

I bought my last street Miata from the south. Fly and drive.

EDIT: Also, if it is at a dealer, you'll be paying a premium. You will do much better to find a privately owned Miata with lest rust for the same or better price.

CGLockRacer wrote: I bought my last street Miata from the south. Fly and drive.

This. 100x this. A $200 plane ticket and a weekend fly-and-drive will save you hundreds or thousands of dollars and months or years of wasted effort trying to get back to something that can't be duplicated.

I love the fly and drive idea and will probably do it someday, but just to play devil's advocate, it does have it's downsides. Mainly, that you are buying sight-unseen. If you can get lots of pics or (even better) a local person to check the car out for you, that will alleviate most of these concerns, but there's still nothing like getting your own eyes on the vehicle you are buying.

Also, rocker rust on a Miata isn't necessarily structural. The outer body panels themselves are not, but the bulkhead behind is. Now, if the outer panel is badly rotted, chances are the bulkhead is, too, but it's not guaranteed.

You need at least a week to go Miata shopping in the South. For some reason Atlanta seems to be a good hunting ground for cars.

While dealers might not be the cheapest, you are still ahead by being in the south looking at rust free cars and you can cover a lot of ground (and cars) quickly.

You need time to clear paper and do carfax or whatever due diligence is required. Beware of cars that might have been shipped from the north to be sold as southern natives.

If returning to Canada, your papers need to be at the border 72 hours before you arrive to cross.

i think the trans tunnel provides a lot of the miata's structural stiffness, so i'm not afraid of rusty rockers. i'm also not afraid of filling those rusty rockers with spray foam and bondo.

Tom_Spangler wrote: I love the fly and drive idea and will probably do it someday, but just to play devil's advocate, it does have it's downsides. Mainly, that you are buying sight-unseen. If you can get lots of pics or (even better) a local person to check the car out for you, that will alleviate most of these concerns, but there's still nothing like getting your own eyes on the vehicle you are buying. Also, rocker rust on a Miata isn't necessarily structural. The outer body panels themselves are not, but the bulkhead behind is. Now, if the outer panel is badly rotted, chances are the bulkhead is, too, but it's not guaranteed.

All I could tell is that the outer panel looked pretty rusted. Would I be able to check the bulkhead from underneath? I also like being able to see cars in person, even if a good example in my state might command a small premium. I know buying from a dealer would cost more, but if I can get a price that isn't too out of line, why not?

The rockers most definitely are structural. You can feel it, and the result of adding our frame rail reinforcement kit makes it pretty obvious. A peek inside will show that Mazda agrees - there's a lot going on in there.

In almost every case, rust in front of the rear wheels has broken through from the inside after destroying all of that inner structure. It's repairable, but not good. I have seen one car that just had the outer panel rusted, it was an easy fix.

Keep in mind that a car with body rust is also going to have corrosion elsewhere. Not structural, but you'll discover the pain of shocks that need to be cut out and snapped fasteners. Seriously, look elsewhere if you can! Most of the cars we work on at FM are rust free, but once in a while a northeastern car will show up and everything takes twice as long to do.

One thing that you will find in snowbelt areas is summer-only cars. They're a good option, as they tend to be pampered, lower mileage and rust free. But they're not for sale in January! Best time to pick one of them up would probably be fall.

In reply to gtoben:

Stop looking at my car!

I don't want to peel back the rust I'm seeing now on my car. Just ready to part with it once the new Fiesta is around. The thing I would be worried about is water drainage- mine has shown multiple times that it wants to retain water- which seems to have done some damage. There are little drain holes in the rocker- if those are plugged, then the outer probably is being shown on the inner rockers.

Besides, the salt makes the rust a lighter color- perhaps fooling the next buyer.

Anything past a bit of surface rust on subframe/suspension components and I pass.

Thanks for all the advice!! I'm still going to check out the car in more detail today. I'm not one to pass on inspecting a car or going on a test drive. Also, if the price is right, it might still make sense to grab it (if further investigation shows the rust isn't too bad). If I'm still on the fence after tonight, I'll toss some detailed photos up and maybe one of your guys can tell me how stupid I am for still thinking about a rusty Miata

As for cost, I had the corners rebuilt on my 94 NA. It cost be about $1000.00 in body shop work without paint (car needed a total repaint, which was done later) If I had wanted a paint touch up and blend, they would have added $200-$300 on top of that. That was the cheapest I was able to find, and I got the rate by having a "mom and pop" shop do it, in the "slow season" (mid-summer in MI) and telling them they could have the car as long as they needed. A high end, big shop, "drop it off on Tuesday, pick it up on Friday" would have been in the $2000.00-$3000.00 range. Throw in $1500 to $3000 in bodywork on top of what you're currently looking at paying and you probably have cash for a decent example.

BTW: Since you're in MI and looking at NB's, this one caught my eye recently: http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/cto/3559449993.html

Not mine, no affiliation, etc.

Yeah, hold out for a non-rusty one, They aren't too hard to find as most are stored in the winter. It's worth it.

Thanks for the pricing info. Based on that it sounds like unless I can get the Rusty NB for 1500-2000 it just doesn't make snese (and I dont think there is anyway the dealer would do that). That one is Kalamazoo is very tempting. I need to give the guy a call and try to drive out there this weekend. I'm in Farmington Hills so Kalamazoo isn't that close, but the drive isn't terrible.

For what its worth, I got mine for $2300.00. Its now pretty well sorted, but I have about $4500 into it. If I had it to do over again, and wasn't in a hurry, I'm pretty sure I could find a clean example for less than the $4500 I have into it. On the other hand, I was much more likely to get spousal approval for a $2300 car than for a $4500 one, so there is a method to the madness.

EDIT: Also, I'm in Kalamazoo, and know a little bit about Miatas, happy to give a second opinion if you think you need it. The best advice I can give, though, is to read the buyer's guide in the "garage" section over at miata.net.

If your budget is around 2K, you might be better off with a hi-milage but clean NA. The last thing anyone wants to fix is rust.

I live in Mich (in the good part, Holland) and agree with Keith that there are plenty of Miatas here that have been pampered and stored in the winter. I think those pampered cars are in better shape than many of the southern cars that have six-figures of mileage and a lot of wear. There are still 30,000 mile cars out there. The only problem is they are often overpriced initially, so you've got to wait them out a bit to get the price right. After a couple of months, or especially after July 4 people are ready to sell. They occasionally pop up in the winter, but mainly start appearing in mid-March. The stuff at dealers right now is generally stuff they couldn't sell last summer/fall--not a good sign.

Keith is also very very right that a little rust in the body means that every nut and bolt underneath will be a pain. Even if you do have to pay a bit more than you like, the not-driven-winters cars are the ones to buy.

--Carl

I am in Ohio and there are LOTS of clean miatas here, but like the others have said: they bring a premium. Its worth it. Rust sucks and its presence will make you hate working on the car.

On the other hand, if you can get one cheap enough that still looks good at 10 feet... Drive it until its a parts car! I got my '96 for a song. It is rusty, but I know that in a year or two I'll have a ton of '96 parts to use on another miata or sell off on ebay.