Miata HPDE questions

Hey,

Looking for people's experiences with tires and brakes when tracking a miata.

I'm ok with a set of track wheels/tires, but don't really want to swap pads for track days.

Questions are:

1. Brake pad recommends? I had some Axxis Ultimates on the Miata used on the street only. Really liked them, but the fronts only lasted about 20k miles with no track use. Never had much luck running Hawk HPS or HPS+ on the track with a first gen RX7 due to fade issues. What are people using who don't swap pads for track days? How much use do you get from a set of pads?

2. Tires: Looking for something cheaper than DOT race tires. What's a relatively inexpensive tire that holds up to track days?. Wondering how long I can expect them to last for track use with a street friendly alignment?

Thanks

The Porterfield R4S can handle medium track use. The Performance Friction PFC97 is a rock and roll star that can handle anything but is really messy on the street and can eat rotors like crazy.

Honestly, changing pads isn't that hard if you already have the wheels and tires off. Pad use depends on the track, the power level of the car and the experience of the driver. Miatas are pretty easy on brakes and tires.

For tires, hook up with a Spec Miata team. Get their cast-off RA1s. If you keep your eyes and ears open, you can get them pretty cheap.

Keith wrote: For tires, hook up with a Spec Miata team. Get their cast-off RA1s. If you keep your eyes and ears open, you can get them pretty cheap.

Good luck with that.

We run them to the cords

You might, but not everyone does...

Yeah, not sure I can count on getting takeoffs.

Would also like to have some tread since I'm planning to drive them to and from the track.

I race on RA-1's (13" so I can't use my takeoffs), so I am familiar with how well those wear. I was hoping to find something cheaper that lasts as well or better. I am willing to trade some grip for cost and/or longevity.

Would like to get people's opinions on how well tires like Azeni's or similar hold up.

I had pretty good luck with EBC Greenstuff for street, autox, and HPDE on my first Miata. Others like them. And some others hate them. Personally, I like the Hawk HPS and HP+. So, what do I know?

I've found the Azenises heat-cycle out too quickly. That may no longer be the case with the 615, but I was unimpressed with the 215 in this regard. I get a lot more wear out of a set of Toyos. There's a reason the RA1 rules the track days. The Nitto NT01 is another option, sometimes they're a bit less than the Toyo.

You could try the Kumho XS. No good in cool weather, but cheap and pretty grippy.

I ran Carbotech XP's on my Miata and they work fine for driving on the street, minus the squeeking and dusting. Haven't checked the wear on them in a while so I can't comment on longevity.

For tires I used RS3's and they lasted me through 15+ (I lost count) autox's and 3 track days. Still have life in them but there is quite a noticeable drop in grip from when they were new. They were never that good in the rain or cold even when new but the dry grip was great. Really you could take your pick at whatever extreme performance summer tire and be satisfied if you don't want an r-comp. FWIW my alignment is -2f -1.8r 0 toe all around and I got pretty even wear but I didn't drive it all the much on the street. At most 4k miles but probably closer to 3k and that includes driving to the events.

I've asked my Spec Miata friends about cast-offs in the past and was told that they find the tires are fastest when they're almost worn out. No tires for me.

I run Hawk Blacks up front and either the HPS or HP+ in the rear, whichever of those two is more aggressive. The Blacks dust like crazy on the street. If you like your wheels, I would not recommend them.

I ran Hawk HPS and HP+ and never had fade. Fade is ofen not caused by the pads.

Had a friend with a Datsun/Nissan? He put an air dam on it and went through his front pads before the end of the track day. He forgot to put cooling ducts in the dam.

If you're going to track the car often (read, more than 4 times a year), get a set of dedicated track pads AND dedicated track rotors.

You'll be thankful you did.

In reply to Matt_Smith:

That suggests the question I almost asked earlier... Given the "swing a dead can three times, brake from 40 to 20, 55 to 15, and 37 to 31.5 mph, then pour out a freshly-unsealed bottle of that Ol' Janx Spirit on your dog's grave" instructions for getting pads bedded in, I'm uneasy about the idea of swapping pads back and forth on a set of rotors.

Can't say I'm thrilled by the prospect of doing that swap for every track day, though...

I swap pads and rotors for track days. I run Carbotech Bobcat on the street with dedicated rotors, then swap to Carbotech XP10 (Front), and XP8 (Rear) with dedicated rotors. I can swap pads and rotors out in about an hour or less.

Bedding pads is easy. You just want to bring them up to temperature and keep them there, without coming to a full stop. Look at it that way and you'll understand how the bedding process works.

Swapping pads for a track day isn't that big a deal. You're already looking at them to ensure you have enough meat as you swap tires, right? A couple of bolts later and they're in your hands. The rotors follow.

Fade is caused by heat. It could be the pads being unable to deal with the heat of track use (firm pedal but no braking force) or it could be the fluid boiling (soft pedal). You can manage the heat somewhat with ducting, but you do need pads that can handle the amount of heat you'll put into them.

I run Porterfield R4 pads with dedicated rotors on my turbo Miata, which puts big loads on the brakes. These work very well. As others have said, changing rotors is only a tiny extra step beyond changing pads. And you should be changing pads for track days - you'll get better, more reliable braking and have a chance to lube your slider pins, which almost certainly need it. Besides, Miata rotors are dirt cheap. I've run the cheap generic "premium" parts store rotors with no issues. (made in Italy 'tho, not in China)

I've run Nitto NT01 225/45x15s for track use and absolutely love them. Grippy, forgiving and long lasting. Cheap too.

Well,

There was a good deal on Star Specs at TireRack ($80 rebate if you buy 4), so I pulled the trigger on a new set of wheels and tires.

I will have to suffer with the standard brake pads for my next event, then look for an upgrade. Probably try Hawk HPS+. again. I got fade with those on my RX7 (firm pedal, no bite), but the Miata has bigger brakes, a little less weight, and better factory "ducting". So hopefully they will work better in that application.

Thanks for the info everyone