Miata vs original Elan

Guy on my local Alfa club forum just posted a link to this article, comparing the original Lotus Elan to the Mazda MX-5. It's a good read.

http://www.lautista.com.au/01/?p=469

Both of these cars are icons of their time and feel almost magical compared to frumpy modern machines with their agility and user-friendly, unfiltered controls. But it is difficult to truly judge them based on ‘personality’ as it is a matter of personal taste. Are Lotus electronics endearing or frustrating? That depends on the person.

More comparison photos:

http://members.cox.net/elans4/ElanMiata.htm

This really gives you a sense of just how small the Elan is.

Here's me with my Miata and another guy's Elan about 5 years ago. I drove it too. 1700 engine with Webers...the thing really had stones. The Miata is a boat by comparison.

[edit-geeesh. I'm glad I lost that 35 lbs since then]

To Mazda’s credit they never denied seeking inspiration from the past. MX-5 concept engineer Norman Garrett attributed Chapman’s “driver and car as one” approach as a model for his team to pull towards a similar goal. They were known to have 2 Elans at their disposal during development and came to know them intimately

It's funny how many people I've heard try to dance around this. The Miata is clearly derivative of the Elan. And that's OK.

kreb wrote:

To Mazda’s credit they never denied seeking inspiration from the past. MX-5 concept engineer Norman Garrett attributed Chapman’s “driver and car as one” approach as a model for his team to pull towards a similar goal. They were known to have 2 Elans at their disposal during development and came to know them intimately

It's funny how many people I've heard try to dance around this. The Miata is clearly derivative of the Elan. And that's OK.

Many of the period advertisements even boasted that the Miata was essentially a modernized Elan/Sprite/Midget.

If you talk to Bob Hall - the father of the Miata, Norman Garrett was the packaging engineer - you get a different story. The Elan was his. He got Mazda to pay for it, from what I recall, and it eventually got shipped out to Japan. But it wasn't a reference car, it was his car.

Keith wrote: If you talk to Bob Hall - the father of the Miata, Norman Garrett was the packaging engineer - you get a different story. The Elan was his. He got Mazda to pay for it, from what I recall, and it eventually got shipped out to Japan. But it wasn't a reference car, it was his car.

And if you look through some of the concept pictures that have been published, as well as other anecdotes, they also used the various Alfa Spiders as influence.

The Miata isn't a modern Elan.

It's a modern combination of the Elan, MGB, Alfa Duetto, Alfa Giulia, Datsun Fairlady, etc, etc, etc. Take what's good on each, put it all together, and you get a Miata.

E-

The Elan was really impressively fast for it's day! (I didn't realize how fast.)

I want a Miata powered Elan.

I participated in a comparison of a Miata and an Elan (also an Alfa and Fiat) for the Topless Dancers article in 98. You should read it and see who won the timed event. :-)

The Elan is a fantastic car and was very nimble, very ahead of its time. I would love to own one as a collectable, but the Miata with its 25 years of design knowledge is a better driver and faster.

... That doesn't say much though as any 25 year span should produce a better car. The 09 Camaro will also be a better driver and faster than a 69 Camaro. I would still rather have a 69 Camaro in my garage.

Except for very few (low VIN 90 or BRG, etc) the volume of Miatas made will keep it from being collector status so drive them and enjoy.

RandyS, that makes sense. I guess I was just looking at the 0-60 time. As we know that doesn't make the car "fastest."

There are currently so many Miatae out there we can say 'they'll never be collectible'.

The same thing was said of aircooled Beetles and MGBs.

Absolutely. I think a mint condition Miata will be worth big money eventually. Same with any enthusiast car that gets driven hard. But don't sideline your car as an investment! Drive it and put a few bucks a month into savings - you'll end up with more money and you'll enjoy yourself in the meantime.

Edit: I forgot to mention that my dad said the exact same thing about our '66 Mustang; that there had been too many of them made and it would never be a collectible. That's shortly before he rebuilt the motor and then sold the rust-free, New Mexico - then - Florida car for $1500. Tears. Pain.

I love the Elan, and Europa, and 7, etc., but would never consider one as a daily driver, for that I have a Miata! However, nothing really drives like a well setup Lotus, nothing. In an ideal world, you would have both, the Miata for getting to work, the Lotus for those magical afternoons that only come around every now and then.

As a side note, I was able to drive a Lotus 7 at a national Lotus club meet a few years ago, and they were probably the most fun car club I've ever been around. I've sort of searching for a Europa ever since!

Obviously it isn't a 1:1 knockoff, but you'd have to be blind and dumb not to see that the Elan is the closest match of the car's listed above. As far as which is faster, out of the box the Miata'd beat it on a track, but if you put on wider rubber and took the sway out of both cars, the result might well be different. In fact, it's a tribute to the essential goodness of the Elan that it's close in speed to the Miata. Compare the performance of any other car 1966 versus 2009 versions, and there's no comparison. A new Ferrari, Vette or Porsche will absolutely spank it's old counterpart, yet the Elan's still in the hunt.

Miata, the best LBC that England never made.

RandyS wrote: I participated in a comparison of a Miata and an Elan (also an Alfa and Fiat) for the Topless Dancers article in 98. You should read it and see who won the timed event. :-)

As the owner of a Fiat 124, I would love to read the article.. got a link as a search only brings up this thread

Probably have to buy the back issue

March 1998: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/issues/details/132/

Looks like a good issue all-around.

dculberson wrote: '66 Mustang;

The problem with waxing over 66 mustands or VW Bugs is that not every one of them are worth huge dollars. Don't make the mistake of buying a 66 mustang thinking they are all worth 50-80k as Shelbys and HiPo 289s fastbacks are. I just ran a search at http://www.autotraderclassics.com and found sixteen 65-67 mustangs in the $2500-6000 range. Fake, replica or "tributes" rarely get back what you have in them

Due to so many Miatas being built they will be will likely be the same way. Miata's unfortunatly do not have a Shelby or HiPo version. Unless you have a low VIN 90, a BRG or possbly a 97 R/95M it's not going to command any premium. So many have been raced that having a provenance or log book probably won't help. My car has been in 7 magazine issues and been in a book and I doubt I could get more than market rate for it.

SM has reduced the supply a little so that may help prices in the future. :-)

As with anything collectible, the rarest versions will bring the highest price. The rank and file hobby cars won't bring Barrett-Jackson money but will still keep some value. I still feel B-J has inflated values to the point where a weekender with a family could find himself priced out of the car of his dreams.

For a wayback machine comparison, my brother bought a decent condition '64 1/2 Mustang notchback (260 V8, 3 speed, generator instead of alternator) for $225.00 in 1976. Good paint, good interior, everything worked but it needed brakes. It was just an old car at that time. Since they were 'just old cars' many of them went to the crusher etc so now the value has gone up, I would have to say a solid driver like that would probably bring around $4-5k now.

Or a 4 door '57 Chevy; nowhere near the value of a 2 door, a 'vert or a Nomad but it would still be higher than in the mid 1970's when a bud bought a daily driver 6 banger 3 on the tree '56 4 door for $50.00.

No, the vast majority of the cars we see now won't put your kid through college in 2030 but they will be worth SOMETHING just for the rarity.

Randy, it looks like it's the 93LE that's getting the attention from the collectors. Makes sense, it's one of the very few that is mechanically different and also has a unique interior. It's also more rare than the other specials, with 1500 vs 3500 95Ms. The 10AE is the one everyone expects to be a collectible, of course.

I agree the 93LE is very collactable. As far as the 10AE, I'm not sold on it. Everyone thought the 78 Corvette pace car was collactable too - It still sells for less than people paid for it new

I'm not convinced the 10AE is the magic one either. Maybe we need to wait another 6 years and see how it is compared to the 93LE :) It does have a notable mechanical change, unlike most other special Miatas.

Is there any special mechanically about a 78 Corvette pace car? There are so many 'vettes with real performance options that they're always going to be the desirable ones. Since Mazda never had a real performance option until 2004 (R packages don't count, they're just stripped models with crap suspension), the collector Miatas are differentiated on color alone...

racerdave600 wrote: I love the Elan, and Europa, and 7, etc., but would never consider one as a daily driver, for that I have a Miata! However, nothing really drives like a well setup Lotus, nothing. In an ideal world, you would have both, the Miata for getting to work, the Lotus for those magical afternoons that only come around every now and then. As a side note, I was able to drive a Lotus 7 at a national Lotus club meet a few years ago, and they were probably the most fun car club I've ever been around. I've sort of searching for a Europa ever since!

Join the Yahoo lotuseuropa list. Someone just posted a 73 TCS for sale. Running, unrestored, needs small stuff like carpet, paint buffing, etc. They're all projects. If you want one more closer to the natural state that they are found in, (last ran 15 years ago, head off, etc.), they show up all the time.

I don't have an Elan. Just these: