Minilite Wheels and All Other Likewise Variants Mega Thread

frenchyd said:

Any source for 15x 10 with a Chevy bolt pattern ? 
either Panna Sport or Minilight. 

I'm pretty sure that T/A could supply them.

https://transamraceengineering.com/collections/superlite

Pretty pricey, but they sure do look good!

The ultimate banana spoke?

Early Compe 8's --- notice how they use a decal very similar to early Panasport?

I used to think that Panasport was pretty much a replica of the Enkei Compe 8 because I thought that the Enkei design had been around for a longer time...

...but the company itself puts design release time at 1979:

The Compe 8 is very very similar to the Panasport design.

I wish that Enkei would sell the regular Compe 8 over here, ideally with updated modern manufacturing process like their MAT or whatever (is that semi-forged or what?) --- the Compe that is available is the one with the ribbed inner rim and they are quite heavy too.

That design is derived from the vintage Limited Compe.

I think that the earliest Enkei Compes may be this design:

They also made a weird reinforced version of those, the Compe Rally.

This advert is from 1977:

Strange but appealing somehow.

GET THE BEST FEELING YOU WANT FROM ALUMINIUM WHEELS

My problem with the MiniLites on late model MINIs is that they are neither. They are not mini, and they are not light. 
 

49 lbs per corner is absurdly heavy for a low hp car.  Granted, that includes the factory run-flats, but the combination is obscene. 
 

I will never be able to appreciate the form on something that misses so big on the function. 

I agree regarding the modern MINI S-Lites, something like 25lbs each I think?

Had a similar function-over-form debate recently when I came across a pretty good bargain on some MINI-specific Minilites.

I wanted them because they're the "real deal" , but weighing in at 22lbs each for 16x7 is just too much for me so my logical head won out against my romantic heart and I didn't get them.

Shameless plug:

If anybody wants a set of 14x6/7 staggered Watanabes in 4x114 I have a set I'm not using. Road Atlanta area

Ignore the stock ride height:

16" Rota RBs run around 16.4 LB, which I don't find too bad for a cast wheel. I've got a set on my MINI and I've got a 15" set waiting for the next time the Miata needs tires.

Yeah I agree the Rota RB ain't bad at all, I've been very happy with my set.

Trying to find accurate weights for comparison can be difficult though --- I've seen older wheel weight lists floating around (often the same source recirculated) but unsure of accuracy.

Would love to compile a list specific to all the 8-spoke variants.

Sometimes the manufacturer is nice enough to provide weights, like Konig lists its' Rewind at 15.2 lbs for the zero offset 16x7.

And of course TireRack is a trusted source, they list the  16x7 Enkei Compe with 38 offset at 18.8 lbs.

Seen various quotes for Panasport and it can be tricky because they have different tiers like ULW racing etc, but Moss is authoritive enough for me and I'll trust them when they put the 16x7 "street" Panasport at 17.1 lbs.

Watanabe is good about listing weights and the various distributors tend to always list their weights too.

Couldn't find 16x7, but for the 16x8 it comes in at 7.5kg which is 16.53 lbs.

They also still offer the magnesium option,  not for 16" apparently, but for a 17x8 it weighs a rather incredible 5.8kg which is only 12.76 lbs!

Would likely be easier to find all these in the more common 15x7 size to compare, seems like 16's are antiquated nowadays.

Any  reliable up-to-date wheel weight archive/lists out there currently on the web? 

15x7-inch Rota RB in gold with 35mm offset weighs 13 pounds, 6.80 ounces. 

I've got a pair of Panasports in 15x6 and a pair in 15x7. I should try and weigh them to see how they compare to the Rotas. It would be "just for science" since they don't fit any of my current cars.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

I wouldn't have guessed the Rotas were that light compared to other SpecMiata legal wheels I've had that visually looked much lighter.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Yeah, not bad at all for something with so many spokes. 

New issue of Classic Motorsports arrived in the mailbox yesterday. Noticed the blurb for classic Vredestein tires were shown fitted to an Enkei Compe, but what really caught my eye was in the Car Catcher section where a hotrod bugeye from WireWheel is featured and I loved how the ARE Silverstones were identified and highlighted in the short description.

https://www.wirewheel.com/inventory/available/1960-austin-healey-bugeye-sprite-for-sale/

On page 2 we were speculating which came first, Minilite or Silverstone?

I still don't have a definitive answer but both were seemingly introduced during roughly the same time period.

VTO currently makes available a nice Silverstone replica, and there was also a rather obscure JDM variant made by Magroad who took inspiration from the distinctive look of the Silverstone design.

Back in the day,

Nissan also used a wheel that looked very similar to the Silverstone with those scallops on the spokes.

Apparently they were only ever used on the Prince R380?

What a fantabulous looking machine!

Bonus video!

It is unclear if those wheels were made in-house by Nissan or made from an outside supplier --- similarly Nissan also used wheels that looked like Watanabe RS8's:

But I'm not sure if they were made in-house or obtained directly from Watanabe?

They were available as official factory accessories:

It is difficult to find much information about those wheels,

and it is also difficult to find many period shots of them fitted.

They used them on Z cars too:

It occurred to me that I still like the same sort of spoked wheels - as per my two modern sports cars, albeit in 5 (double) spoked form..

I'm running 16x7 Rota RBs on my TR6.  I believe they look almost as good as the Panasports at about a third or less of the price.

I bought a couple of sets of wheels from Pack Racing in AZ in the late 2000s.

15 x 6 with 195/45-15 for my 1968 Lotus Europa:

The other set was 16 x 8 for my 2009 Ford Ranger FX4; I don't have a picture of the FX4 but they looked amazing..

Interesting story about the Singer Mulholland car:

Apparently, the owner commissioned a well-known wheel manufacturer to make the wheels for this car and the tab was 40k. For that princely sum, the wheel manufacturer also agreed not to sell the wheels for anyone else...

Good God Almighty!

The wheels on that Singer are just damn near perfect.

Any clues as to who the wheel manufacturer was?

Speaking of well-heeled playboys, if money is no object then bespoke tailormade is the obvious choice, one outfit who will supply your request of such stuff is Crosthwaite and Gardiner who  are an amazing enterprise which creates all sort of incredible stuff, including making engines from scratch.

https://crosthwaiteandgardiner.com/

Most related to our discussion here is the fact that they can provide excellently correct 8 spokes, because amongst their offerings are Cooper Motorsport replica wheels.

Climax Cooper!

Oldboy Speedwell said:

Good God Almighty!

 

The wheels on that Singer are just damn near perfect.

 

Any clues as to who the wheel manufacturer was?

Augment Wheels is who was whispered, I love Design 90 wheels and would love a set of the 17" version that they offer.

Ah!

Cool thanks, was unaware of that company until seeing a recent post I saw showing a set made for a vintage Z car,

Watanabe style:

Speaking of Z cars,

seen here is the big brother of the Rota RB,

the  RBR -

&

yet more Z mania!

Actual bonafide Minilites -

The story behind those photographs is interesting:

" the highest-finishing S-30 Datsun Z in the history of the Sebring 12-hour race in April of 1978. Finished 12th overall and 4th in GTU...

...A survivor and finisher of the 1978 Daytona 24-Hour race. Finished the race with the RH lower tension/compression rod in two pieces, repaired by laying both halves in a piece of handy angle-iron and brazed together. Brake line was torn out, so we crushed it, folded it back on itself and clamped it in an 8-inch Vise-grip plier and taped that to the strut with a fair amount of duct tape and sent the car back out.

The car was sponsored by Bandag Recap Tires. We used New Goodyear carcasses with Bandag street tread applied. Ran the Daytona race with one tire change (they wore like iron) and three brakes functioning.

Thank you Bob Bondurant for the opportunity and thanks to Ted Viviani, Bobby Bondurant and the many others for all the hard work, blood and sweat it took to get it there for Bob Bondurant, Steve Cook, Bill Cooper and Ron Southern to do a superb job of hauling it through to the finish."

Continuing on along with listing the various variants, there are quite a good many different "knock offs" of the distinct Watanabe style...

...but first just a quick note to those who are overly dismissive of "fake" wheels, no matter the brand there ain't no wheel that is indestructible, so don't expect immortality boost just because you spend the extra coin for the genuine article.

Photo of  badly damgaed Watanabe:

Ironically, if you go looking you may find that the top photo has been used to make a meme with the phrase "don't buy reps!" even though the pictured wheel is Watanabe.

The photo was from a Japanese enthusiast site for MX5 autocross.

Anyway, now onto the Wat copies...

Rota has the RKR -

But more famously there exists a JDM variant from Black Racing -

The BR's are pretty much straight Watanabe replicas and in fact so much so of a copy that Watanabe ended up taking them to court for legal action. I'm unsure of when but likely the 90's. I found several accounts talking about that and there are case texts online but I can't read Japanese.

Watanabe won in court and Black Racing was commanded to stop making their version,
but the verdict only applied to the 14x6 size for some reason I think?

ISLGrassRoots said:

15 x 6 with 195/45-15 for my 1968 Lotus Europa:

I just saved this photo because that's exactly how I want my Europa to look. 

Forgot to add Japan Racing to the list of Watanabe variants, they've gained quite a following in the UK and Europe.

And concerning 8-spoke replicas, it is in the JDMworld where things can get most contentious.

The story of Atara illustrates it all rather well.

Atara Racing is a Malaysian brand who offered a Watanabe replica called the Pisang, they possibly may still have it available but I couldn't find any for sale Stateside, and I didn't dig into their current reputation on JDM-centric forums either, but I did come across a FB post from the company that was very lengthy so it appears they got a good bit of flak attack:
 

(entire quote below)

This post has been long overdue. It was suppose to be posted last year but we need to sit down properly and make sure what we write does not hurt many out there but it is a post that we need to share.

Many people has been questioning the legitimacy of Atara Racing especially when we sell those Pisangs. We were labelled fake, knockoffs, replicas, fly by night brand and so on. Well, we are not supprise on this especially when we touches the sensitivity of redesigning or innovating the famous 8 spokes wheel. Many of you called it Watanabe. Others but not many knows them as Panasport, Minilite and so on.

So... who copies who? Who imitates who? These questions has been there for a long time. Yes, they have similar 8 spokes design. Some made it single cast, some made it 2 pieces and some 3 pieces. One thing for sure they do not imitate the brand. Each has their own brand and history. Same as us. Our Pisangs looks similar but they are different and we do not sell our Pisangs as Watanabe or Minilite or Panasport and etc. We market it our own way, our own name, our own style and our own effort. We do not benefit money nor name nor fame from the famous brand above.

So.. what do you call something that looks similar but they are not the same?

In dictionary, it's called innovate.

We innovated the 8 spokes design.

If you can see on your left of the pictures, all 4 of these looks similar but they aren't the same. The spokes, the centre bore and etc. Most important is the brand name. We each has our own special way.

And on your right of the picture is somewhat very famous for all of you called it replica, fake or copy. Why do we say that? It has the Watanabe logo on the cap, the Black Racing insignia on the centre and the exact same spoke as Atara Racing. That is one hybrid you seeing there and its been famously circulating around Alibaba.

These are in the internet for quite some time now and many has connected us with them. Let us make this clear, we do not have any relations with them nor do we represent them. We have numerous complains about their quality and we have no choice but to push back the support. Our Atara Racing Pisangs are made with the best quality alloy in the market and they have already tested in and out of tracks over the years. Yes, our products are very priced competitive with the fakes but this does not mean we are fake. We just do not contribute high cost of marketing, overheads and models. We market our products as free as possible. We prefer giving out wheels as sponsor rather than spending tens of thousand of dollars on AnP. We are in a way encourage the consumers to buy original goods rather than fakes.

Yes, we consider ourselves original whether some of you like it or not.
 

(end quote)

A comment:

Their wheels actually look pretty good...

...and they weren't exactly cheap either:

By the way,
the word " pisang " means banana in Malay language. 

There is huge demand for Watanabe wheels, but they are difficult to obtain plus mad expensive, so this makes big tempting incentive for enterprising opportunists to sell fake counterfeits.

The "fakes" can be easily found for $35 each wholesale...

...add a nice center cap in addition to some hipster instagram marketing,
and there is potential for rather large profit margins,
at least for a short term gain.

Luckily, such shady stuff is usually fairly short-lived because word gets out and the low-quality fakes go down in flames, but many people cannot resist such a bargain price.

Recently came across a glorious looking old Healey Fiesta for sale and remembered that it was once an R&T cover car, so I dug out my copy to see what they wrote about it, Aug 1979 issue, and of course it is shod with Minilites (6x13)...

...but also interesting was to see an early advert for 

Panasport wheels:

Made me start looking around again and comparing them with the Enkei Compe-8's because I sort of suspected them of being the same thing just re-branded, but it seems my speculation was unwarranted because from the backside you can tell a pretty big difference - the Compe-8's have strengthening ribs at the tip of the spoke as well as a pair of triangular reinforcements at the base.

Top: early Panasport / Bottom: early Compe-8

both 5.5x13

Another neat tidbit snipped via google books from the Mazda Miata Performance Handbook by Norman Garrett,

who wrote:

Holley (yes, the carb people) are selling these. Didn't see them mentioned.

They are pretty high on my list of wheel styles for my Falcon project. Inspired by this car:

ddavidv said:

Holley (yes, the carb people) are selling these. Didn't see them mentioned.

They are pretty high on my list of wheel styles for my Falcon project. Inspired by this car:

Interesting.

They look nice and it's always good to have as many options as possible.

That Holley makes them was a bit of a curveball, so went looking and saw the Scott Drake relation.

Motor Trend ran a piece on him:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/mump-1301-the-repro-man-scott-drake/

Did Holley buy Scott Drake?

Found a backside pic and noticed that they are made in China, no surprise nowadays and the casting actually looks good anyway, although the spokes appear solid as opposed to the usual scalloped style so they may be a bit heavy?

My 3D printed Center Knock off Miata Daisy Cap